OK, so the definition doesn't support it all the way. So if it was racist then why was there a big hoopla over it?
Again, you've invented your own definition of racism. That's fine, but then this is a semantic argument and won't go anywhere. I'm sticking to the idea of "superiority based on race". Making a determination about food preferences based on the color of one's skin isn't racist. It may actually be pretty smart. Would you serve mayo to a gathering of the NAACP? I wouldn't. Would you call to cater an event of 80 year old grandmothers in North Dakota with spicy indian food? Doesn't make sense to me. That's not racism guy. That's common sense. Is it a stereotype? Perhaps. But note the lack of any kind of assesment of superiority - either explicit or implied.
I think a reasonable American could predictably infer a comment alleging one's affinity for fried chicken and collared greens as implying an unrefined palate. That having been said, I think we should do a better job of using alternate terms such as "stereotyping" or "racially insensitive." I think the incendiary and accusatory tone of the term "racist" prevents any practical usage of the word.
His comments weren't racist....it was just callous and offensive to some (or many). But being offensive doesn't mean you are a racist or full of hate. And this is a key point. This is a point I've been trying to make for a while. The whole idea of racism has become muddled. And that's dangerous. Racism is something far more darker then ignorance or making a stereotype or any kind of words. Every minority has probably experienced racism at some point...being told they were inferior in some way because of the color of their skin. Why throw in there things that don't belong, and all of a sudden not being PC becomes racist. I don't like that...because it diminishes the seriousness of real racism. And real racism isn't about ignorance - it's about oppression and discrimination on a level that results in handicapping of an entire people. Real racism is what prevented blacks from playing in baseball for so many years. Real racism is when there were different laws for different groups. That implies superiority or inferiority. Segregation is racism. Inequality is racism. But comments about what to serve for dinner? Please.
How am I making up a definition. Here's the definition from the dictionary... From the American Heritage Dictionary. (Read the first half of the definition) 1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Okay. You've convinced me. I'll buy that. If you're sticking to that strict definition of inferred superiority then I can agree. However, if Fuzzy Zoeller's comments weren't racist then they're at the very least racial discrimination.
He's saying (and I agree now) that while saying somone is more likely to eat some type of food, that doesn't necessarily mean you think they are inferior to you. It's kinda like going to a Chinese restaurant and the waiters only bring chopsticks to the Asian folks and the others get forks. It's probably from experience that they do this, but is very assuming. But not racist.
That is not the definition you used to define Fuzzy Zoeller's comments as racism - here is what you wrote: Those are two very different things. not the "and" in the definition from the American Heritage Dictionary. 1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. This "and" means that in order to satisfy the definition, both clauses must be there, not just one.
They weren't discriminatory because Tiger wasn't discriminated against. Discrimination is a distinction being made - but it's one being made without regard to individual merit. For instance - Discrimination would be not allowing Tiger Woods to play in the Masters because he was black despite being a great golfer. What Fuzzy Zoeller did was "racially insensitive" and it may indicated that he has a moral viewpoint that is indeed racist - but his words alone were not sufficient to make that determination.
It may be suggestive - but it may not be. I'm not sure it is to be honest. I've had some really first class fried chicken in my lifetime. It should be noted that Zoeller really complimented Tiger's play and said he deserved to win. Anyway, I think we're all - cross my fingers - beginning to converge toward agreement...
First, apologies for coming into this thread late, but I haven't logged into CF for many moons. Anyway, since no one else seems to have done (although I may have overlooked a post or two), I guess I'll be the dissenting Black voice: am I really the only Black person on this board that's bothered by Black people AND White people using the word? Call me nutsy (and you may, anyhow), but I've never felt that being Black gives me a free pass to use the word, and I never do, even in jest: not to my Black friends, not to my White friends, not around kin, not around anybody. And I hope that my son, who is only half-Black himself, follows my example. Lord knows that he has some racist people on both side of his family. Which brings me to another minor peeve: some Black people seem to think that we can't "really" be racist, because we're in the minority in the America. I remember, in my youth, flipping through the channels and stopping on some talk show or other, where some guy said something like, "Black people can never be racist, because we're not the ones in power." I was only about twelve at the time, and thinking, that's just about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard... I mean, just speaking from personal experience, my aunt Sharon is probably the most racist person I've ever met, so I'm pretty sure that Blacks aren't exempt. Whenever I call her out for her opinions (in private; my elders have described me as "outspoken," but I still would never disrespect one of them in public), her explanation is that it's not really racism, because we're still victims of racism... which is a notion that I simply find too absurd to be taken seriously. IROC it seems to have the right idea... it's a shame that everyone else appears to have no-sold his post. "Offended" may be the wrong choice of words, but... man, does it tick me off! Chalk it up to another peeve, I guess.
Yea. . that is why he put Asian as his race on the Tour Cards in college That wasn't racist . . I mean . . if he would have put black . . it would have been an issue. . . . so he *had* to put Asian Nothing Racist about that at all Rocket River
I didn't leave anything out of the definition. That was the definition. There doesn't have to be an attempt to show superiority. Perhaps that was in your definition, but not the one that I quoted. If you assume because people are white they don't like chinese food, then it is a racial stereotype that isn't accurate and assumes a characteristic because of race. I see the difference in what you believe racism to be. Even if that was the only definition of racism, then you need to at least agree that stereotyping even if it wasn't racism should be stopped, and it is wrong to defend it. The harm that it does is immense. I have given examples of the holocaust, and casting practices etc. of minorities in the media. So if you don't want to call it racism, don't, but at least stop trying to defend the practice as ok.
Without the stereotypes what you happen to define as racism wouldn't be possible on any large scale at all. That is what I am saying. Very few people will buy that the idea that something is superior to something else and should have special privileges out of nowhere. The duhumanizing and taking away of people's individuality is what makes some able to sell the superiority angle. Failure to recognize that is even more dangerous. If it is only bad once it spouts off a superiority angle, then racism is mostly harmless, because folks just won't buy into that on any large scale. But as the holocaust proves, and as survivors of the holocaust will testify to, the stereotyping is what makes it all possible. Quit labeling it as PC. I am as anti-PC as possible. I am also anti-stereotyping and racism.
Just to add Spice Let's see what THE COUP thinks about it Rocket River -very similar to my own thoughts Artist: The Coup Album: Kill My Landlord Song: I Ain't the ***** (Big Bird) Now I shall tell a story that's filled with words that start with the letter N (DJ Pam cuts up "Fly lyrics from the bank of reality" --> Flavor Flav) [Boots] Step into the world of a ******, figure to stay a little while so pack your bag up bigger First of all just let me introduce you seduce you into a frame of mind that's easy to get used to ****** hasn't always meant a man with melanin It used to be a piece of wood that sat on the cotton gin Masta put it there and it wouldn't move, smooth So what does it mean, to be a ****** With an Attitude? You tell me that a ******'s crazy or lazy Not about the skin so, don't let it faze me Well you amaze me, with that ignorant bizull-shizzit Get a grip on the new fit Cause that's a lame frame of brain for the nineties I know the game so it don't sting, my mind sees So what the **** you wanna race for the trigger I ain't the one, I ain't the ***** "If I'm a slave, I'm a slave to the rhythm" --> Big Daddy Kane "You know that I ain't the *****" --> Ice Cube (repeat 4X) (DJ Pam cuts up "******s, love everything but themselves" --> Last Poets) [E-Roc] ****** is a word we use today, you say It don't mean the same if you spell it with an A But that's an argument that makes me itch, I twitch If I took the T out will I still mean b****? My name is E-Roc, and I ain't the ****** main Save your sellout strut **** for Soul Train Cause I've been known, to knock a mother****er out Without a doubt, The Coup gives me much clout But there's a factor when I know that my skin is brown And never ever will I put another brother down (gawwwd damn) So I make the mental rule to massacre the word Cause when I hear it, it gets, me straight stirred It's mental trash so I'm pickin up the litter I ain't the one and I ain't, the ****** My people use this word each and every day You see a ******, slap a ******, that's what I say "If I'm a slave, I'm a slave to the rhythm" --> Big Daddy Kane "You know that I ain't the *****" --> Ice Cube (repeat 4X) (DJ Pam cuts up "******s, love everything but themselves" --> Last Poets) "Boy I love playing the drums, I can do the grooviest rhythms I can do rhythms like.." [Boots] My attitude is this (what?) don't call yourself a ******ole (why?) Unless you're just an oakie-doke it'll make you sicker though Cause it's all about a mind-time mind-frame The system is a chess game with, pawns all the same (haa haa) Until we change our mind to ? Identify yourself, it's a part of being concious (yeah) If I call myself a gangster then I'll rob you with a gat (yeah) If I call myself a brother then you know I got your back (yeah) If I call myself oppressed then I'm clear on where I'm at But if I call myself a ****** what the **** is that? (yeah, you know) Don't be the coolie or the moolie or a boob with the jigger Don't be the one... don't be the ***** "If I'm a slave, I'm a slave to the rhythm" --> Big Daddy Kane "You know that I ain't the *****" --> Ice Cube (repeat 4X)
You said, The Spanish or Port named the river Niger. You said, the word Niger means Negro in Spanish. You said, it isn't a big leap to get from Negro to N!gger. Please explain to me your logic that the country of Nigeria has nothing to do with the word ******? I don't follow your logic. It seems rather clear to me. Maybe you are getting too hung up on the word 'roots.' I'm not looking at this from a chronological order of what came first. I'm looking at the current state of affairs. Wow, you are very litteral. Yes, please explain. Actually, I feel I am being very open minded as I have changed my position since this thread started. When it began, I pretty much beleived that whites should not use the term at all. I now beleive that anybody can use the term if they want as long as they know HOW to apply the term. If you don't know how to apply it, then it is safest to not use it. How am I being biased?
as much as people use racial slurs, I believe the more you use it, the less impact it has. Plus, black folk callin each other *****s is a sarcastic way, and almost an inside joke. I'm chinese, I can absolutely take no offense to the work "Ch***". If someone uses it in a derogatory fashion, I brush it off. Chalk it up to ignorance.
