Did somebody really ask who Condoleeza Rice was??? Oh, OK. Well then, **** Harry Belafonte. By which I mean, I disagree with the leadership of the Democratic Party.
I think it's funny how people get bent out of shape when celebrities make comments about politics. It's kind of like professional atheletes making comments about astrology. In other words: Who cares!
If he's black (or any other stinkin color) and his views don't fit that of the Republican party then why is he a Republican? That's my question. Furthermore, why is possibly the greatest example of Affirmative Action in America working for a party that rejects it and a President that firmly opposes it? If Bush had his way there wouldn't be a Colin Powell even in a position to accept this kind of job. Belafonte has worked for decades on behalf of civil rights in this country and here is Powell in his position partly because of the civil rights movement and then joining a party and a President that could really care less about minorities in this country. What do you call that? When Dubya got elected did he turn his back on who paid for it? Reasonable? Pfft.
Make no mistake about it, Colin Powell has the position he has today through a lifetime of achievement and a track record of success. He is not the result of a government handout. He earned his spot at the table. I think that fits perfectly with Bush's affirmative action policy. Reward success, not failure.
Blacks are 50/50 on affirmative action. You have de-railed. Good to know that you agree with Belafonte though. Interesting.
That is such crap TJ. Colin Powell himself credits Affirmative Action in part for where he is today and that doesn't imply that he's not deserving or hard working. You make it sound like Affirmative Action is this program where they pick up some minority who works at Wal-Mart and make him a four star general. Christ!!!!
For the record Powell fully supports affirmative action and himself has said it was important to getting him to where he is (unless you want to discount his own words about the matter). Timing, above I have articulated my "speculations" on why Powell is a Republican. My personal hope is that it has a lot to do with the first reason I provided (believes he is better serving our nation trying to moderate the reactionary segments in the Repus and bring that party closer to the center to further more productive and deliberative discourse about our key national issues), but I think my second reason is probably a big part of it if not most of the story.
What does that matter? He's a product of it and is a proponent of it as well while the Republican party is against it. Powell is pro choice too unlike Bush. Rail on freaky. Good to know that you agree with racism though. Interesting. You're priceless with those one and two sentence instigations before you run off to watch O'Reilly.
I honestly don't know why he chose to be a Republican but I tend to think that if he did it in order to create change from within the party he could have done that easier by simply running for President which I know his wife didn't want him to do. Powell would have trounced Bush, Gore, and anyone else who might have tried to run. As it stands, Powell is in no position to bring his party to a more moderate position on domestic issues.
You said he's in a party that "could really care less about minorities" because they "reject" affirmative action. I pointed out that blacks are split on the issue, so that proves "rejecting" affirmative action has nothing to do with caring about minorities. That's "what that matters". Riiight. You basically came out and said Belafonte was correct. When did I come out and say anything even remotely racist? Oh but wait, everyone's a racist but you, right Timing? Just quoting this one because it's one of the few statements I've seen from you where you didn't allege racism.
Some excellent work by you in this thread, Timing. Blacks in this country will always think of guys like Colin Powell and Alan Keyes as "Uncle Toms." Powell and Keyes are not nearly the Civil Rights champions that guys like Lee Brown and Ron Kirk are. Keyes frequently speaks out against welfare programs, Medicaid, health care reform, education bills, etc. -> the same programs that most Blacks in this country support, and that we can all benefit from. Keyes works for the wealthy folks in the country and could give 2 sh*ts about the working class.
Geez, as if the Republican Party Platform only addresses Affirmative Action and Abortion. Colin Powell is a Republican because the GOP represents the majority of his views better than any other party. Blacks who says that he is a sellout are intellectually bankrupt and racist.
What a complete load of crap. Alan Keyes believes his views will benefit all Americans, and he cares deeply about his country. Your post is no better than Belafonte's comments. Your arrogance is obnoxious.
Originally posted by TheFreak You said he's in a party that "could really care less about minorities" because they "reject" affirmative action. I pointed out that blacks are split on the issue, so that proves "rejecting" affirmative action has nothing to do with caring about minorities. That's "what that matters". I did not say because they reject affirmative action. Blacks might be split on the issue however Bush is not and Republicans are not. Blacks by the way don't encompass minorities anymore than Mexicans encompass Hispanics, boy hope you're taking notes cause I know we all look a like right buddy? Maybe if they (Republicans) were split on the issue it would show that they gave a damn about minorities as they would be actually having serious discourse and disagreement on important issues regarding minorities. Maybe if they ever meet with the NAACP or LULAC that would show they give a damn about minorities. BTW, I reserve to right now to string together any number of partial quotes from your posts and include whatever I want to make it look good for me. That was nicely done there, The Bill O'Freak super spin Factor in effect. Riiight. You basically came out and said Belafonte was correct. When did I come out and say anything even remotely racist? Oh but wait, everyone's a racist but you, right Timing? Did I say that Belafonte was correct in using slave analogies? Where did I say that? I see Belafonte's point of view and agree with it to an extent however I don't agree with the way he expressed it since you asked so nicely. You always ask so nicely. Maybe you should just give me the approriate smilie code or special handshake to alert you to sarcasm responding to your idiotic instigations.
More faulty assumptions: 1. The assumption that EVERYONE agrees that affirmative action has been positive and continues to be a good thing for minorities 2. That the Bush administration and Republicans in general care nothing about minorities because they don't support affirmative action or more federal welfare programs 3. That Bush never met with the NAACP...I seem to remember him being invited and attending a banquet of some sort The bottom line is that it's just stated as fact that if you don't agree with the tired Democratic solution to a problem, you're a racist and/or care nothing about minorities. It's a weak, weak, weak assumption. The Democrats have been trotting this out for years...it's a typical scare tactic that ignores reality.
Originally posted by MadMax More faulty assumptions: 1. The assumption that EVERYONE agrees that affirmative action has been positive and continues to be a good thing for minorities. Who cares if everyone agrees? Everyone doesn't agree on most things. So what? The nations highest ranking minority in government thinks it's positive and is proof that it can provide big results. 2. That the Bush administration and Republicans in general care nothing about minorities because they don't support affirmative action or more federal welfare programs. Name anything that Bush has done for minorities. Anything? What is his plan? If no affirmative action then what? What is the Republican plan to bring minorities into proportional levels of wealth and power in this country? Where is it? FIND IT! I want to read any plan, anything. Instead of sitting around shooting down what "doesn't work" why don't we see any plans? Yes, the answer is school vouchers obviously. 3. That Bush never met with the NAACP...I seem to remember him being invited and attending a banquet of some sort. Well I think you seem to remember wrongly. The bottom line is that it's just stated as fact that if you don't agree with the tired Democratic solution to a problem, you're a racist and/or care nothing about minorities. It's a weak, weak, weak assumption. The Democrats have been trotting this out for years...it's a typical scare tactic that ignores reality. Republicans ignore reality. If Democrats have tired solutions where the hell is the Republican solution? WHERE IS IT? The answer is obviously a flat tax right? Yeah... Seems to me Republicans are content to talk about how Affirmative Action doesn't work, though they'll strangely cherry pick Colin Powell which is surprising since he's obviously gotten a government handout and probably isn't qualified, and have nothing to offer in terms of solutions to problems in minority communities. Where is the Republican solution? You've got nothing and you know it.
So does Lyndon LaRouche. So what? It is ironic that the Republican Party opposes affirmative action, since they've made such effective use of it. J.C. Watts, anyone? How exactly did he rise to such prominent power with so little experience? It's damn hard to beat a minority Republican, that's how. And it's damn hard to call someone out on policies which set minorities back when there's a minority serving as Secretary of State, even when each and every one of his views which run contrary to Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld's is summarily dismissed. His frustration at being shut out by this administration is surpassed only by his loyalty. He is a good soldier. I don't think that makes him a sellout, but I do think it makes him the Garrett Morris of the Republican Party. He is to be seen and not heard. And, considering the fact that he is so regularly dismissed for his views, it makes it laughable that his inclusion in the cabinet is used by this administration as evidence of their openess to diversity, both racial and ideological. Powell is not only a strong supporter of affirmative action -- he gave the most rousing speech of the Republican Convention espousing its necessity. I'd be less inclined to call him a sellout if he actually was one of those African-Americans who had an honest difference of opinion. He isn't. He is a passionate believer in affirmative action who, for whatever reason, serves an administration which is passionately opposed to it. I don't for a minute suggest that the color of one's skin should dictate their party affiliation, but Powell's ideology on issues of race is absolutely at odds with his party's.
wow! we REALLY disagree on this. you posted a lot...i'll do my best to address what you said. 1. i really do remember bush going to an naacp event and it being pretty well covered -- honestly, that point is neither here nor there, since attending one event does not a supporter make. 2. you're right..everyone does not agree...but...you're missing my point. my point is that reasonable minds disagree on the real effects, intended and unintended, of affirmative action. you believe it's been great...there are some who don't believe that and think it's a hindrance to minorities to be treated differently under the law...there are some who believe it has created an assload of resentment. so, you see...just because you don't agree with the implementation of affirmative action does not necessarily mean you don't care for minorities. 3. what is his plan for minorities? do we really want our leaders formulating plans to treat people differently? what happened to equal protection under the law? tax cuts affect green...not black and white...they are not targetted at minorities, but if you're going to argue there aren't minorities in this country who benefitted, you're nuts. remember too that blacks aren't the only minorities in this country. defense spending -- does it not protect us all equally? this is the fundamental difference in our argument...you're looking for something targetted particularly to minorities...i say if you make schools better, you make them better for EVERYONE! i say if you improve defense, you've just made EVERYONE safer. see how incongruent our logic is together? not saying i'm right and you're wrong on this...just asking you to see my point of view 4. solutions...are you seriously arguing that welfare has significantly helped the plight of african-americans? welfare reform is a solution, because it forces accountability. you don't subject someone to a life of handouts. teach a man to fish, or something like that. do you seriously think the democrats don't benefit on election day from not solving these issues? from not reaching real solutions? Timing..your views are really different from mine, and it probably has a ton to do with upbringing and "walking a mile in my shoes" kinda things. what i'm asking you to do is to share your ideas while considering WHY we're arriving at such different conclusions. present your ideas in a non-Trader Jorge manner and I'll try to do the same...too often this becomes a game of trying to beat the other in an argument...I don't think that's real productive for anyone regarding issues like this that can become so divisive and extrapolate out so quickly.
Bring minorities into proportional levels of wealth and power??? Is this what you think affirmative action is all about? Move to Sweden or Denmark or another socialist country if this is what you're looking for. Try hard work, dedication and goals if you're looking to achieve a proportional level of wealth and power. This is a free enterprise economy, one in which hard work and goals will get you to the top. If you think you deserve to reach the top by a government handout alone based on the color of your skin, you don't understand this country or how to make it. And somebody please explain to me why Asians don't receive affirmative action, yet they are minorities.
