It looks like the last poll was taken before the speech and the new change in strategy, Nov. 20-22. I suspect there might be an uptick when the later polling comes in.
Chavez has his problems, but Obama could learn to have more balls to fight for what he believes in. He could learn this from Dubya who did this despite having nutty views that have led to our current messes.
At first unthinking glance this statement has its attraction. However, as we see from the irresponsible journalism of the day this approach can be a form of nutty alleged moderation. Reporters dutifully report: "Dubya, Palin, genric GOP er says global warming is a hoax; 100 Nobel scientists say it is happening." The truth must be in the middle or more likely they just leave the two statements one after another with no comment. The problem is when you set up the Teabagger-Cheney-Palin types on one end of the spectrum and set up basically moderate social Democrats who have mainstream opinions as the other pole. This tactic is frequently seen on Fox wherein you have a Glen Beck type on the "right" and a Joe Lieberman type playing on the "left" and decide that therefore we have to invade Iraq, but there is some sort of minor difference in strategy. Such bs explains how what is considered "kooky" leftwing in the US, (such as Medicare for all, free college education, unions and higher minimum wages to redistribute the income and create a bigger middle class, etc.) is accepted as the norm in all other advanced countries. Same thing with policing the world, continual war etc.
BTW anybody see Obama on TV today talking about jobs. A good job. Thank goodness we did not have to have GOPer saying nothing or bleating about the free market etc.
glynch, I'm happy for your reasonable post, and ima let you finish, but ignoring that Obama continually said he would focus on Afghanistan is some of the weakest sauce of all time. OF ALL TIME! (followed by not posting this in the existing Afghanistan thread.)
I agree. Obama's whole campaign foreign policy cornerstone was that Iraq was a problem in part because it sucked resources and troops needed to complete the job in Afghanistan. I can't believe people are shocked he's actually taking troops out of Iraq and sending more into Afghanistan. That is what he campaigned on.
No, it happened because of a short-sighted foreign policy. Mistakes will always be made. A determined enemy will succeed eventually. No matter what processes or protocals you put in place, people will succeed in terrorist type activities. It's not just 9/11. It's Oklahoma City, it's the Anthrax cases, it's the unibomber. And it also has happened in Bali, Spain, and London. What's amazing is that it hasn't happened of late. Failed war? Hardly. The only way to ensure our national security policy never gets exposed is to remove the exterior threat - in this case Al Qaeda. If we leave Afghanistan today, Al Qaeda will once again be able to execute plans to attack western cities.
Hey, I perfectly understand. I don't even look into half of his posts any longer, and usually regret it when I do. Having said that, were you dozing during the campaign? None of this is a surprise, except how long it took for him to make a decision (too long, IMO) and the numbers, and considering our limited resources, with so many boots still on the ground in Iraq, I don't see how he could have sent many more without straining our volunteer military more than it is already. And any fewer wouldn't have enough impact to make an escalation worthwhile, not in my opinion.
McCain voter here who thinks Obama is doing pretty much what he said he would do. Why are Obama supporters of all people surprised at this. I got no problems with what he is doing, since I have felt the Afghan war was the more important one. Iraq was a mistake that Bush and crew blew up. Did they think leaving Iraq equated to leaving Afghanistan?
I for one appreciate having some left of me on the board. I really want to be a centrist. (but the right has been so full tilt Bozo it made me look like a pinko) You can see the end game that is being set up in Afghanistan if you look at the subtle change in the way the administration refers to the Taliban. They are being identified as something different than Al Queada. The compromise will be between the Northern Alliance tribes and the more moderate Taliban for the formation of an Islamic Republic .... that will have clan chiefs in charge of their own fiefdoms just like always; and a weak central government that will control Kabul, backed up by an American base. There will be lip service to keeping Al Queada at bay and some show raids to keep America happy. Book It.
Andy, you need to relax with a good joint. Next thing you will be against legalizing pot, if you aren't careful. I basically hate to post at all in Basso threads. Maybe we would be better off just starting new threads if he starts an interesting thread in his typical Basso way. I knew Obama prattled on about Afghanistan during the campaign. I really thought that he was just trying to appeal to yahoos who like their presidents to do stuff like that.
You're right. Mistakes will happen but the goal should be to minimize those mistakes so that they don't happen again. Actually, it's amazing that 9/11 ever happened in the first place. It took many people being incompetent in order for the 19 hijackers to get to the U.S., learn to fly planes and then pull it all off without being stopped. I never commented on the war but I think it should have been executed more intelligently from day one but I guess it's too late for that. I'm willing to give Obama's "surge" some time before I judge the decision but I definitely want to see some real progress and not have another General telling us we're losing 8 years from now.
Andy, you need to relax with a good joint. Next thing you will be against legalizing pot, if you aren't careful. I basically hate to post at all in Basso threads. Maybe we would be better off just starting new threads if he starts an interesting thread in his typical Basso way. I knew Obama prattled on about Afghanistan during the campaign. I really thought that he was just trying to appeal to yahoos who like their presidents to do stuff like that.
Andy, you need to relax with a good joint. Next thing you will be against legalizing pot, if you aren't too stoned already. I basically hate to post sauce on Basso's threads. Maybe we would be better off just wearing new threads if he starts wearing interesting threads in his typical Basso way. You dig? I knew Obama tattled on Afghanistan during the campaign. I really thought that he was just lying to yahoos who like their presidents with stuff on top, like that.
But no matter how much we minimize the risks - and that we should definitely do - the risk always remains. 9/11 should never of happened, but it did. 9/11 was an elaborate plot, not all terrorist acts need be so elaborate. And like I said, it happened in London, it happened in Spain. It happens in Israel quite frequently despite the protocols and security they have in place. They use our freedom against us. I don't see failure as an option. I am disappointed we are only sending 30k troops. If I was 22 I would feel compelled myself to go to Afghanistan. This isn't just a question of justice for those Americans who died, it's about defeating an enemy that has called for America's destruction. Maybe some of that is oratory rhetoric, but they have backed it up with attacks. 9/11 wasn't the first attack by these guys. This has been going on for a while. They hit us in Africa, these guy hit the U.S.S. cole. And they have killed Americans in Bali. Their goal isn't to liberate Afghanistan or it's people. It's to subjugate them to their rule and then restart their extreme ideological mission to hit the U.S. and Israel and all those they see as partners. This is Bin Laden's mission. And do not think the Taliban and Al Qaeda do not work together. They do.
