Even if the article were true, which I am not 100% sure of, with the extreme agendas of many in the liberal press, AA is not the answer. Discrimination to counter discrimination is WRONG. There should be policies such as hiding peoples' names on applications to universities and other methods to take race out of the question.
Well, we'll just have to disagree, as long as discrimination exists, until someone can find a better solution, I'll support Affirmative Action. And this article came from the WSJ, so I don't know about your liberal press scenario.
Believe it or not, one of the things that angers me so much about AA is the fact that I go out of my way *not* to discriminate, yet I still must suffer the ill effects of AA. Hiring under-qualified people for jobs (which I have seen numerous times in person) only sets those very people up for failure. Having to score and extra 100 points higher on standardized tests than *chosen* minorities to get into the same university, grad school, etc is really a handicap that is unfair in today's society.
Boy, are you a mathematician or something with all this proving and stuff? Are you sure you want me to find one shred of proof for what you quoted of my previous post? Okay, but thanks for making my day again as I present to you Exhibit A: Now, SamFisher, you did say one didn't you? You aren't gonna sit there and tell me that you still don't believe it like you did earlier in this thread when I showed you stats on crimes, are you? Oh, I forgot, you will as you will make up some excuse to try to make your point the right one DESPITE *evidence* to the contrary. Hey, I could learn to like covering my ass like that to make myself still look good!
I've already covered the answers to most of your questions, including your theory on discrimination against poor whites which would be no less prevalent under an economic system. The fact that you're asking me what cumulative effects of history underscores how out of touch you are with the situation. I don't know when affirmative action would end, it's an imperfect drop in the bucket solution to a complex problem. If your kind in office spent as much time trying to fix problems as trying to get rid of affirmative action then we'd be getting somewhere. The constant absurdity and lack of genuine concern for the issue exemplified by Manny, yourself, and the other two which pretty much mirrors that of a large percentage of ignorant Americans will probably assure that affirmative action will be around for quite a long time. It'd just make too much sense to address the problems. It's a lot more fun to actually paint yourselves as the victims and ridicule what you obviously don't understand.
And I go out of my way to do well, and I still may be a victim of discrimination, so excuse Texxx for not feeling sorry for the beaten down white man in America. I'm not feeling sorry you, like Samfisher wrote, show me how Affirmative Action, has had real damaging affects on White Americans, show me numbers, I don't care about your personal experiences, and I might change my mind.
If getting pissed off at seeing someone getting a free ride makes me such an evil person then all I can say is sorry.
Why would you conclude that? I make an observation and you immediately denouce it as racist, simply because the facts are grounded in race? You can not simply dismiss any argument because it deals with race. For some reason, people are afraid to share their common sense beliefs because people like you jump up and call it racism. It's not -- it's an observation and nothing more. I was very careful in how I worded that. Quit trying to drown out the argument by calling things racist. Are you afraid to debate its merits?
Explain to me how Colin Powell got a free ride. He's a real life example of affirmative action, not some abstract evil beneficiary that you enjoy demonizing in your mind. Then explain to me how a student from an inner city black neighborhood facing all of the disadvantages of that situation who's given an opportunity at a state college is getting any more a free ride than Colin Powell. edit: You know that's one of the things that really pisses me off about the anti AA arguments. This idea that beneficiaries give minimal effort and are getting a free ride. It's obvious that people who say that really don't understand how AA works and who it really helps. You really seem to believe that some inner city slacker who shows up to class every other week is getting the nod over some suburban valedictorian, student body president, cheerleader, etc.
? an editorial about Jayson Blair proves or is evidence that: "Our society has taught *most* (not all) people that it is never *your* fault if something doesn't go your way, it is always someone else's fault." Maybe it's evidence of what Jayson Blair (rather than "*most*") was taught or believes? Indeed, if one man grows up learning to be a racist, Is it an accurate statement for me to say "Well, society teaches racism" but fair is fair, you've arguably shown one example. Congratulations. Manny, there's a reason I'm able to rebut your arguments, but I'm slightly puzzled you have such a hard-on for me that I can "make your day", and that you recall that other thread so well, and you cherish the day that I conceded your statistic that blacks, according the numbers you posted, were more likely to have been arrested for embezzlement. My original statement in that thread, if I recall correctly, was not limited to that context, so I dispute your victory, but if it makes you feel good, go ahead I guess you're still smarting from the day (wasn't that like a month ago now?) when I said I didn't really care that much what you thought, and you responded with a ad hominem profanity laced tirade. I apologize if it offended you, but its just a Houston Rockets BBS, lighten up. I didn't take your nasty response seriously. Tangent: you know what I thought was funny about that article?: that this was the first line: This is an argument for a color blind society?
Timing, I have witnessed the very situation you are describing first hand while at Rice. It was shocking how many people I went to high school with that were *head and shoulders* more qualified to attend Rice than some of the people that were there as a result of the affirmative action program in place. We *are* talking about valedictorians. We *are* talking about people with leadership positions in school government, sports teams, and other organizations. It was absolutely disgusting. When I saw people there because of AA not put forth the required effort, it made me sick to my stomach. One of these people actually bought a bumper sticker that said, "I go to Rice, I must be smart" and put it on his car. This person was the son of a rich cable executive, and a horrible student who was there for the sole purpose of fulfilling someone's social agenda.
Nice spin job there, Sam, but Mr. Blair's attitude is the embodiment of something not being his fault but someone else's and is he not a part of society? Thank you. Considering your vulgarity towards me, I take that as a compliment, I think. Hey, hey, hey! Easy on graphic references there Clancy boy! Remember Jeff's sticky for this forum. I'll tell you plain and simple: I don't like you or at least your persona on this BBS. You are smug, condescending, rude, and obnoxious. However, I will say that you have gotten better lately, so maybe this is a sign of things to come, who knows. Maybe you are being the Dem version of Trader_Jorge and being way over-the-top comes with it, I really don't know but that is it in a nutshell. Oh and that thread about the embezzlement is this one, lol. See this is what gets me with you (and no don't flatter your sick mind) is that I gave you statistics and you still found a way to say "Well, yea but ..." Different context?? Gimme a break, Sam. It is more likely you don't want to admit that you might have been wrong about something, but it is okay. It is not like we are keeping score here. So, it is okay, believe me on that one. Puh-leaze. You have an enormous ego if you really believe that. As I mentioned earlier in this post, I don't care for your style. You may be a great guy off the board but in observing your posts here, you don't act like it on the board (but you are doing better, I will give you that.
You are most certainly welcome! And for the record, I think that Colin Powell is someone who has always worked hard for what he has accomplished and maybe AA helped get his foot in the door. Yet it is sad to me that he would have to use that route to get in. I guess I am naive to think this, but I have a feeling that it wouldn't take long for people to figure out that Colin Powell knows his stuff and will be climbing up the ladder of any company or organization that he is in.
Where did you get that from? Point me to the line in my quote where I said that. Ironically, one of the negatives of AA is that if somebody sees a *chosen* minority at a top university or in a competitive job, then many will unfairly assume that they are there due to AA, not based on merit.
Chill. Out. I'm flattered, truly, that you seek my approval, or to illustrate my folly, or consider me a worthy adversary, or whatever, but it's just not in my interest to fight this battle on this level. I think the substantive arguments speak for themsleves. By the way, this is oxymoron of the year:
T_J, if you *don't* see that your line of reasoning is based on a narrow worldview, there's nothing that can be said to change that. The implication that blacks don't perform as well as whites is *THE* basic assumption of racism. It gets no more basic than that.
