am I the only one who finds it hilarious that FFB proclaimed to finalsbound that he 'won't pull any punches...' but blasted her and moes before his last ban....
This thread needs more Yakety Sax. Spoiler <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EIOmVKjhKto?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EIOmVKjhKto?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
Yeah. I think part of the problem is that she thinks her "beliefs" define herself (and her parents) when they are really nothing more than a collection of thoughts. They are arguing over labels instead of just seeing each other as mother, father and daughter. Everything else is just mind-fluff.
Wait a minute. Are not "mother," "father," and "daughter" labels as well? Roles susceptible to interpretation via the prisms of differing cultural traditions, that also must be constantly redefined due to the passage of time? Did I just blow your mind(-fluff)?
SirCharlesFan, Not to derail this thread, but pretty much anyone who's read finalsbound's post can tell that her parents are quite confrontational and in-your-face about their politics and faith. So it seems fairly obvious that her parents intimidated her beliefts out of her. fb, Cultural clashes take time to work out, so rather than dealing with the thornier issues of beliefs (religion, politics), focus on your parents behavior. Maybe start by sitting down with them and asking if they want you to be honest with them. More than likely, they will say yes. Then let them know that their behavior is making that very difficult for you. Tell your father that you do not appreciate that he turns any discussion into a yelling match. And tell your mom that snooping through your things is a violation of your privacy and her guilt trips make it difficult to communicate with her. The goal here is to make your parents understand how their behaviors (not their beliefs, not their morals, not their inherent selves) are hurting you. You also need to emphasize your love and respect for them during the conversation - talk about the good things they've done and your desire to keep them in your life. And be prepared to listen to them when they bring up your behaviors - none of us are immune to counter-productive behavior and you might get some insight into what sets them off. Things won't change overnight, but if you help them understand what behaviors are counterproductive when dealing with you, it will make the bigger conversations easier down the road.
Late to the thread as usual, but a couple of thoughts: finals, From what I have read, it is apparent that your parents don't respect you as an adult. You may have talked about this on the board but forgive me for asking (as I don't post and read as much as I used to) but what did they think about your marriage to moes and the fact that it didn't work out? The reason why I ask is that a lot of times parents will take something that has happened to their kids that didn't work out for them and use it against them. Sorta like "Aha! I told you so", which isn't really fair to you because you need to go out on your own and make decisions separate from them and live your own life. I remember almost 5 years ago, my father looking me in the eye and saying point blank, "You'll never get married because no one can stand to live with you!" Granted, my relationship with him was never the way I wanted it to be, but a lot of that was from me trying to live my life the way he wanted me to live it instead of living it for myself. There are still times that I feel that he looks at me like I am 12 or 13 instead of 37. But I will say that living 20 miles from him and my mom and having my own family has improved our relationship. I think you have to move farther away or if that is not an option, you have to limit your visits with them. There's an old saying that says "Absence makes the heart grow fonder". Sounds like they have taken it for granted that they are always going to see you. Go a week or two without seeing them and they will probably change how they talk and act to you. They have to respect you and respect you as an adult. There has to be boundaries in your relationship with them. If there is a topic that you cannot agree on, don't discuss it or learn to agree to disagree. I am mostly conservative/Republican while they are democrats, but we RARELY talk politics - it just wouldn't accomplish anything good if we did. Your parents have to learn that you are who you are and that they cannot change you. Just like you have to realize they are not going to change either. You may not have a Pollyanna type relationship with them but you can learn to be civil with one another. One other thing that I have observed is that people who are very religious and "make" their kids go to church every time the doors are open are sometimes asking for trouble. It is natural for kids to go through a "rebelling" or questioning stage. Sometimes, it is better, IMO, to not hold their feet to the fire about going to church all the time. The tricky part is figuring out what age do you do this? Is it 16? 14? or even younger like 10? Of course, there might be people out there whose kids have always liked going to church and it is not an issue. Yet, it sounds like your parents didn't ever expect that you would rebel against them which is their fault. I wish you good luck and hope it turns out the way you want it.
this advice was so useful!!! I read it right before I visited them them a couple hours ago. I'm bad at communication in all my personal relationships, so I felt like you hit the nail on the head. I pretty much followed what you said line for line. I think I actually got through. Feeling pretty good right now. plus the rockets might actually win a game
I have a sort of similar story, and a lot of my family members have struggled in this way too. I'd rather not get too personal in this regard over the internet, so if you would like to hear some advice from me, finals, shoot me an email. That being said: Stay strong. It's hard, hard, hard to work through this "break" and it can be traumatic as all hell.
I haven't had a chance to read through this thread so pardon me if some of this has been addressed. Finals; It sounds like you are still living at home. If so it is probably best that you move out. I don't think you need to move to another city or state but you are 24 now an adult with a right to your own privacy even from your parents. If your parents are snooping through your journal then they are not respecting your privacy. I think you need to find a way to talk straightforwardly with your parents about what your beliefs are. Avoidance and pretending are short term solutions but ones that might just might make you miserable trying to be what you are not but will also erode trust as your parents will always be suspicious. In the absence of true understanding they are likely to suspect all sorts of things about you. Something like that is not going to be easy and it might just poison your relationship with your parents for good but at least you and your parents will know where you stand. I also I think as much as you want your parents to tolerate and respect your views you might want to tolerate and respect their views. While you might not agree with them I think you need to consider that they believe they have your best interests. Perhaps you can find common interests that you both agree on. If you still feel torn by the need to be "Daddy's perfect girl" maybe there are other ways of earning his affection and admiration than being a Christian Republican. There are a lot of things that you can do that I am sure that he would be proud of, like say volunteering for Habitat for Humanity. Without having to feel like you are subsuming your beliefs for him. Finally I would suggest you talk to an understanding preacher who if things get bad could mediate between you and your parents. I actually have some one in mind but don't want to put him on the spot but if you feel you need to talk to a preacher email me and I will check with him.
Maybe I missed it, but how long has it been since they learned about your your shift in beliefs? I went through kind of a similar situation with my mom, only I started becoming an un-believer in 5th or 6th grade. So it was this simmering feud until I left for college and then gone forever to work in another state. It took, ohhh... probably about a decade of childish threats, silent treatments, and minor tantrums from her before she (sort of) accepted that I didn't believe everything she did. And I doubt she'll ever really be "okay" with it, but at least it's not a constant sore spot that she insists on dragging up anymore. So maybe that's your answer: give it a good decade if they can't handle it. I'm sure everyone's different though, and I only had one religious parent while you have two. They may feed each others' anger and keep the grudge alive longer.
A poor choice of words on my part - I didn't mean to imply that fb's change in beliefs were the result of her parents' intimidation. Rather, I meant that her parents learned of her change of beliefs through their rather confrontational and intimidating behavior. I'm really glad it was useful for you. Hopefully, your conversation tonight will start moving things in the right direction, although you and your parents will probably need to occasionally remind each other when someone regresses to the old behaviors. Just remember that whenever you "correct" them, you should also tell them that you love them. And I think we're all happy the Rockets finally won a game...
Pulling a page out of thegary's book: Monday has come around again I'm in the same old place With the same old faces always watching me Who knows how long I'll have to stay Could be a hundred years Of sweat and tears At the rate that I get paid Sometimes I slowly drift away From all the dull routine That's with me every day A fantasy will come to me Diamonds are what I really need Think I'll rob a store, escape the law And live in Italy Lately my luck has been so bad You know the roulette wheel's A crooked deal I'm losing all I had Soon be like a man that's on the run And live from day to day Never needing anyone Play hide and seek Throughout the week My life is full of romance Guess I'll always have to be Living in a fantasy That's the way it's got to be From now on You think I'm crazy I can see It's you for you, and me for me Living in a fantasy From now on
I talk to my one remaining parent all the time. She lives at the family estate over by Hobby Airport, 87 years young. I had a wonderful relationship with my late father, as well as the one I still have with Mom. Not everyone has had to go through what Finals has had to go through. She certainly isn't the only person that's had that experience, either. A couple of my friends went through something simlar. Don't freak out, Fatty. Life does manage to go on, somehow, regardless of how lucky, or unlucky, we were with the one thing we have absolutely no control over... the two humans that produced us.
As a Christian, I'll tell you one thing: Going to church to please your Christians or because they held a special prayer session for you is a complete and utter waste of time. I'm sure you probably know this, but I'll say it anyway. It's got to be personal between you and God, and your parents may do whatever they do because they're your parents and feel like they have to, but it doesn't matter if it isn't real inside. If your relationship with your parents is getting toxic, you're going to have to move out/cut it off for a while. It'll hurt them, but it's best for you and them. The way I see it, you're never going to be able to find God for real with them breathing down your neck like that anyway, and right now all it's breeding is resentment and ugly stuff. It's not healthy. Parents gotta understand that ... when they're kids you can take them to Sunday school and raise them in the way as best as you can, but in the end, everybody's gotta make the choice for themselves. You can't coerce someone into becoming a Christian, it doesn't work that way and never will. Most of the time, it only has the opposite effect of actually driving people away from God.
Oh, and one more thing: I HATE the way many Christians in this country seem to think that God is a Republican and capitalism is godly. It is just ridiculous.
That's great that your mom is 87 and still going strong. My neighbor is 90 and she will be out there shoveling snow in the winter and she was raking her lawn today. I have had difficulties with my dad and as a kid we had some fights over things like how he disciplined me and as an adult we have some very big differences politically. I know that he loves me and I love him and we have come to respect each other. A few years back he told me that he even enjoys our political debates and has asked me about advice about things like Western philosophy. I think FFB and Bigtexxx are trying to be contrarians out of habit and because they like to but I will agree with them on one thing. As you get older you do understand your parents better and as an adult helping to raise kids and also coaching college kids I see the value in what my dad tried to tell me as a kid. I still don't think that means that we subsume our beliefs to our parents. I think such strong differences like this are more than just a phase and while 24 is young it isn't that young. Our life is our life and not our parents no matter how much they might wish it so.
