How did I have them confused? You don't think that GM and head coaches influence each other by exchanging ideas on how to develop a team? Adleman identified AB. Which prospect did JVG identified during his tenure with the Rockets? Benching Boki Nachbar? If JVG knows developing talent instead of freezing them, you would think that he would have a bench. As fat as Charles Barkley was, he dominated. As out of shape as Bonzi was, he still put up 9 points and rebounded better than Rafer Alston. Bonzi was an utilizable player who was not utilized by JVG, as usual like Nachbar. So after four years of JVG, the Rockets have no future prospect to look forward to, have no bench, have holes in starting lineup. To blame it all on CD is a bit lame I guess.
Sorry, one minor correction, Bonzi averaged 8 points instead of 9, but he outrebouded and outshot in FG% than your every dear starting point guard Rafer Alston, in limited and inconsistent minutes he got.
Morey chose the players, not RA. Much like CD chose players, not JVG. Boki? The guy is at best a decent backup, who, by the way, was not used at all by Rudy his rookie season. Bonzi and Rafer play different positions. Of course a 2/3 rebounds better than an undersized 1. Oh, and Bonzi told friends he was underpaid and wouldn't give a good effort, made up injuries, was fat and QUIT ON THE TEAM
Coaching is overrated in my opinion. It's important yes as far as making minimal mistakes, and setting up schemes, but it's always up to the players to perform out there. JVG did the most with the limited talent he was given. Adelman will do the same. Players change for the better or for worse with each passing year, but give a team chock full of talent to any good coach, and they'll deliver results of championship caliber. JVG didn't deliver because the team wasn't championship caliber. If Adelman doesn't perform its not due to any philosophy he has on the game. It's because the team isn't championship caliber. It's really as simple as that.
ah yes.. the year Rafer Alston missed the most games I remember him missing as a Rocket.. David Wesley was injured and was never himself again.. Derek Anderson, who was suppose to be the first guard off the bench that year.. couldn't come off the injured list.. and if I remember correctly.. there was a point in the season where all we had was Lucas and Head manning the ballhandling duties.. and it took him longer than Brooks to get in there.. Then there was the beginning of the forced "Head as a PG" experiment..
Is that why a long string of ex Knicks suddenly became Rockets players and coaching staff? He had to recover from a groin injury, and Rudy said he regard Nachbar as a next year pick, but Rudy was gone the next year. The point is Bonzi put up 8 points in 20 minutes, outshot and outrebounded your starting pg in about half the minutes. When that happend, it means he should play more than zero minutes. Instead he was frozen by the assistant coach. JVG contributed to the glorious record of no bench scoring in a playoff game. It would be hard for you to admit, but JVG had everything to do with the Rockets having a poor bench. CD's team never had a bench scoring zero points in a playoff game, until JVG came along. Hehe, where did all this accusations stem from, the JVG Chronicle?
Great points, Will (and LikeMike, who proposed the theory). But seriously, what good is astute analysis around here if you can't boil it down to a pithy two-sentence b****slap with a roll-eyes at the end?
You can not be serious about what you wrote. Why are you comparing Bonzi to Alston, especially their rebounding stats. John Lucas III shot better three pointers then Yao, I guess that means he should have gotten more playing time then Yao. Bonzi played 21 min a game last year, shot 41 percent from the field, 14 percent from the three, and 56 percent from the line. He couldnt run up and down the court, looked fat and winded all the time, and asked out of a game, then quit on the team and didnt show up for a game. And you think this deserved more playing time? Boki left the Rox in 04-05 and since then has reached the stardom of about 10 points a game. This year he is shooting under 40% from the field and about 32% from three. Yet, you act like JVG let a perennial all star go. Who gives a crap about Boki. If the Nets offered him to us for free right now, I wouldnt care one way or another if we took him. I sure hope Adelman doesnt give up on Snyder cuz one day he might average 9 points a game for some other team.
At the beginning, I didn't bother to reply your post because you didn't get my points. I don't want to be a babysitter. Yao, Head, and Alston are different players playing under Adelman's system vs JVG's. Yao plays in the high post doesn't mean he need shoot in the high post, he can pass in the high post as well. And, I did see a multidimensional Yao playing under Adelman. JVG picked his favorite one-dimensional players in the past 4 years without pasting the first round of play offs. Most of JVG's 52 was wins over eastern teams. Again, JVG did pick his favorite players. You can't just say ROX has more talents in this year. Adelman picked AB. Bonzi and SF would not return if JVG is still here. JVG will not play rookies. To be fair, if you gave JVG 4 years to operate, gave Adelman 4 years also.
Check the game log of head's rookie year then get back to me Or is it a knock on JVG that he didn't play a rookie 40 minutes a game?
1) Mark Jackson and Oakley were late season desperation pickups. It wasn;t as if there were a ton of quality guys available that point. Weatherspoon was a way to get rid of Moochie Norris, and he was at least semi (very semi) productive at the begining. Ward was a CD signing, and a bad one at that, but we could blame JVG for that one...fine by me. 2) Actually Boki was healthy and Rudy didn't really have him in the rotation...perhaps b/c he wasn't ready, just like Novak and VSpan. Perhaps Novak will end up being a decent role player in time, but he is proof that not everyone is ready just b/c a team drafts them 3) Why is Rafer "my" starting PG? When have I ever defended him? He played well for a stretch but I doubt that's permanent (wasn't today). Comparing Bonzi to a PG is like comparing apples to oranges. 4) Bonzi had everything to do with Bonzi. And that was a quote from one of his friends to Ric Bucher of ESPN and was in ESPN the Magazine. Bonzi has also admitted that last season was partly his fault. Straight from the horse's mouth. 5) Please tell me who sat on the bench who could really have made a big difference against Utah. If I recall correctly, we lost for a myriad of reasons (Boozer, Okur at the 3 point line, AK47 playing well for the first time that season, Deron destroying our backcourt, Luther being unable to hit an open shot, and a clogged lane with Boozer, Okur and AK47, also Gricek playing well AND Sloan outcoaching JVG) I have no problem with JVG criticism. The guy ran a slow offense, was stubborn as hell, was an eternal pessimist and was slow to make adjustments that altered from his game plan. He couldn't get us out of round one, and a change was needed. HOWEVER, that being said, he had a weaker team of players that RA has. I would bet if we had Scola, Brooks and a healthy, fit, and contract year Bonzi last year, we would have beaten the Jazz...but we didn't, so it was time for a change. EDIT: as far as Adelman goes, I wasn't thrilled about the hire and was skeptical at first, but the way our team has been playing without TMac has me feeling a lot better about him. Hopefully when he gets back he plays within the system and we roll
I was a JVG fan, but at the same time I thought the change in coaches needed to be made. I have yet to pass judgment on Adelman as the coach of this team. And you can not simply say that Adelman is responsible for AB but not anything else. Adelman was the coach when we resigned Deke and Hayes. Most people would say that neither of those players fit Adelman's system, and both did not have contracts with the Rox at the time Adelman was hired. So why is it that Adelman is the reason Brooks is drafted, but not the reason hayes and Deke were retained. Alston was considered a JVG player yet he was retained by Adelman even though we were heavily shopping him. My point is the coach influences the roster, but the GM brings the players in. You also cant say that JVGs record was somehow diminished because he won a lot of games against the East. You can only beat who you play. With your reasoning shouldnt every Western team had about 52 wins cuz they also played the East teams the same amount of times. If anything, the Rox had a tougher schedule then most because they played 4 times each against their own division which is so strong. Also, im so tired of hearing the simple statement that JVG doesnt play rookies or develop young guys. Do you think if JVG was coaching the Sonics right now he wouldnt be playing Durant. Head logged major minutes his rookie year for JVG. Yes it was because of injuries but there were other guards on the team that sat behind Luther. JVG also was the coach when Yao was a young player and Hayes also played huge minutes under JVG as a young player.
I thought JVG was helluva coach, but our team (along with his coaching style) in the west wasn't going to get it done. I think even with great offensive players throughout the roster, the Rockets wouldn't have never been that good offensively. Just look at how he used his players in New York, he had offensive weapons everywhere, Ewing, Johnson, Houston, and Sprewell and they struggled some night to get out of 70s and 80s. Even though the defense is weaker under Adelman, it hasn't egregious and has been brilliant at times. Adelman maximizes the players potential offensively, while JVG does it defensively. But the difference is, Adelman will use players that aren't as great defensively, but are very skilled offensively. VG can get players to play defense , if they don't he cuts their time.
Good to see you acknowleding JVG influencing roster changes. A groin injury was slow to heal, Boki wasn't fully healthy until the end of his rookie season, can't blame Rudy not playing a recovering player. Without getting minutes, it's hard for rookies to get ready. Boki has proved himself as an NBA player, not a star but a servicable one, but he was frozen out by JVG, it's a brain fart that depleted our depth. JVG is responsible for his short bench. And Rudy playing Boki or not does not excuse JVG not playing Boki. All right, don't get too liberal. I've made the point of Bonzi outplaying Rafer on some aspects therefore deserving minutes, but all your response is keeping saying "Bonzi can't be compared to Rafer". Excuse me sir, if that's all you can say, I would not want to waste my time any more. So it's a my-cousin's-girl-friend's-mailman's-friend said type of thing huh? And what are the basis of all the accusations you made about Bonzi? like saying Bonzi made up injuries? The whole point is that JVG should be at least partially responsible for having a weak team, putting all the blame on CD is lame. CD never had a team whose bench scored zero points in a playoffs game until JVG came along. RA can coexist with Bonzi, JVG can't. RA can handle Bonzi, JVG can't. I know Bonzi isn't perfect，but RA utilizes him much better than JVG. It's like a marriage, both sides shares blame. You believe in Bonzi's saying that it's PARTLY his own fault, then for the sake of consistency, you should also believe that PARTLY it's JVG's fault. Not knowing utilizing talent enough is what JVG lacked and he dug his own grave. It's the coach's job to get the most out of his players. JVG didn't develop guys enough, with Nachbar being an example, he didn't utilize talent enough, with Bonzi being an example, as a result, he ends up having a poor bench. Four years, all he developed were Head and Hayes, both played because of shortage of men at their position. That's far from enough to build a team.
When did I say that Bonzi should be playing more minutes than Rafer? You think a sg that scores 8 points, grabs 4 rebs and shot 41% in 20 minutes should not be playing just five minutes a game on a team with no bench, that's NO bench at all? What are you smoking, the same thing JVG has been smoking? Normally I wouldn't, but seeing how pathetic our bench performed in the playoffs, yes we did need Bonzi to play, even if he goes out and rapes a girl. AI skips practice, and he plays 40 minutes a game. Bonzi is not AI, so his minutes can be cut as a penalty, but not playing Bonzi at all was a JVG decision that further decimated our depth. JVG lacked RA's interpersonal skills to handle players like Bonzi, therefore JVG deserves a weaker bench than RA. Well, shooting under 40% is good enough for JVG to start him, see how Rafer shot. Still, a 10 points per game young player is better than having old worn down player that never sticks long. GMs and head coaches work together. Having a weak team is partly CD's fault, and partly JVG's fault. Having a strong team is partly Morey's good, and partly RA's good. Fair and square.
Good, you've wasted enough of my time already with your strange comparisons and unwillingness to listen to documented facts. You are like talking to a wall and are clearly confused. I'm done debating with you.
suit yourself.. here's Head's rookie minutes from the first regular season game to mid December. im going to compare them to Scola's rookie minutes instead of Brooks, since they faced more equal quality of competition for minutes(Hayes/Landry for Scola. Lucas/Wesley/Anderson came into the season injured, for Head), while Brooks had to wait behind Steve Francis, Mike James and Alston. Although Scola's more skilled than Head, they both were/are the clear better option of their respective competition for their roster's position. Head: Scola: 7 29 7 19 10 25 14 8 12 9 15 16 13 22 14 12 6 30 27 38 24 10 13 36 10 16 4 24 0 19 0 14 9 17 9 15 1 18
There is so much conjecture and revisionist history going on. 1) JVG never plays rookies... Yet Luther Head played as a rookie... Chuck Hayes was an undrafted rookie and averaged 13 minutes a game over 40 games his first year. 2) I love how any roster move JVG haters don't like was Jeff's fault, but any roster move they liked was the GM... I mean if Jeff has as much control over who comes to the roster as some of you say, wouldn't that mean he had a say in VSpan and Bonzi signing in the first place? Doesn't that mean he had a hand in getting Tmac? In signing Mike James the first time? Some of you act like we had all this cap space and tons of potential stars that we passed on for the players we ended up with. Who are the clearly better players that you thought should have been on our team? 3) An inside out offense like JVG's can never win in the play offs, signed Dream and the 94-95 Rockets. 4) Winning games this year without Tmac is the coaching, winning games last year without Yao was the players 5) We are a much better offensive team this year... Yet we average less points per game than last year... 6) We will win 60 games this year... if we go 40-4 the rest of the way. 7) JVG only plays his guys, with Adelman we will see an entirely new starting line up... or maybe it will be exactly the same. 8) Adelman would have let out of shape guys like Bonzi play into shape... signed Steve Francis I think Adelman is going to do a good job and things have been turning around lately. Like I said when JVG was let go, it's more on the players than the coach as to how far we are going to go. We have more depth and better players than last year so we should improve. Personally I am going to wait til the season ends before I make any final assessments. In the end I consider them both to be good coaches, and the coaching change to be a lateral move.
