I understand and respect that opinion, but that's what it is. Opinion. I think of all of the innocent lives that have been saved...people who will not be blown up now or beheaded ... and it makes me ecstatic. I will not deny it. Why wouldn't someone be ecstatic when thinking about those kids who won't be blown-up and hopefully will be delivered from terror sooner than later? And again, I'm grateful to our troops for their sacrifices and this success. Somewhat regretful and sad yes but also glorious. Oddly, they are not mutually exclusive; in war you often find these co-existing.
Say if police meet a murderer in a busy street, they open fire, kill that bad guy together with some civilians. ---- That should be glorified, right? And damn the murderer for staying close to civilians instead of running on an empty area so that the police can kill him more easily. Needless to say, the police is actually working on other's territory.
That is part of my point. Al Qaeda doesn't have much of an impetus to be there if we're not there. They might use it as a base of operations but its unlikely that the Iraqis will continue to tolerate them. War, especially this war, is political. What is the reality on the ground? We've accomplished our goal of overthrowing Saddam, we didn't find WMD but we put rest to speculation that they were there, we've set up a democratic government (albeit not yet a stable one) and now we've killed the commander of our mortal enemy in the country. It sounds to me like we've met most of the military goals we set out for. The problem that I'm seeing is we're pretty much stuck now in an almost never ending quagmire of mission creep. In Vietnam LBJ couldn't withdraw for fear of losing face but the problem was that he never set a clear cut goal that could be achieved that would save face so it ended up being a war that was fought on our side merely for the sake of fighting. In Iraq though there were goals and most of them have been met. The idea of a stable Iraq that becomes the shining beacon of democracy for the rest of the Middle East is a great ideal but that may just be an ideal that cannot be realized. Further it is an ideal that our own presence as occupiers may actually be hindering. I'm not going to pretend that violence will diminish with the death of Al Zarqawi. It will just shift to different targets with different perpetrators. The problem I see is if we can do anything about a sectarian civil war and if our own presence their just draws us further. No I knew it wasn't a flame and I was just joking with you.
I never once said anything about the two civilians. Why you would take that out of my post is beyond me. You're fishing here.
I genuinely feel that you don't give a damn about Iraqis and that's my opinion. You're just giving us this rheotric to try and justify your jubilence. FYI, the fathet of the individual (Nick Berg) who was beheaded, condemned this glorification as well
You were responding directly to my post where I mentioned them. Unless you mistakenly responded to my post intending to respond to someone elses my post specifically cited the two civillians as a reason for not glorifying this action.
Because I thought it was OBVIOUS that it was sad that civilians had to die for this scumbag to bite it. You have no idea what I gave thought to. Get off your moral high horse for one second and realize that not all people who don't agree with you are evil and want all them eeeeevil a-rabs to die. Should I preface every post for the rest of this thread with the fact that it's a sad fact that two civilians died? I'M SORRY THAT THE TWO CIVILIANS DIED. I WISH THERE WAS ANOTHER WAY FOR THIS TO HAPPEN BUT WHEN YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO GET RID OF A GUY LIKE ZARQAWI YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT. It astounds me that I'm getting the third degree when on this SAME forum anyone with a pro-life opinion gets LAMBASTED. But again, I'm sorry the two civilians died. Aren't you the same one who won't even say if killing Zarqawi was a good thing? Looks like your selective silence has condemned you already ...by the way, I'm STILL sorry the two civilians died.
I apologize that you felt I was trying to minimalize that part of this event. I originally intended to quote only a part of your post. However, I felt if I did that, you might accuse me of trying to minimalize the deaths of civilians. Good thing I decided not to do that.
just wanted you to think of something...if those two were close family members of yours...would you still have the same opinion? (would it be worth it...or...if there were a few American hostages along with Zarqawi would a different approach have been taken? In my opinion nobodies life is worth the death of Zarqawi’s.
How many innocent women and children did Zarqawi kill? Do you think he would have: A) Taken early retirement, B)worked until he was 65, or C) kept working after age 65... but maybe part-time?
Yeah, I would. In fact, I'd have the same opinion if one of them was me. Unlike some, I realize that there are more important things in this world than ME.
How many of those people were killed by Zarqawi because of the access and oppurtunity he was given by the Bush adminstration's failed Iraq war plans ? I don't understand the need for all these obvious statements about how good it is that we killed Zarqawi. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT. Let's not pretend he was as powerful before the invasion of Iraq as he was after (not even close), though. Let's not pretend that one of the reasons to go to war was to take out Zarqawi specifically.
I think it's pretty clear from my comments that I like others here are indifferent towards this...I'm definitely not going to use this ocassion to celebrate, glorify it, and be jubilant like you Why are you using my words...be a little more original
Why? Because I'm glad he won't be killing more Iraqis? If you wanted az hanging around then it's clear that YOU are the one who doesn't care about Iraqis. Defend your ignorance. Nonsense. I am not jumping-around jubilant. The whole scene is disgusting, but the world is now a slightly better place. He's entitled to his opinion, as is Nick's brother who seems pretty ecstatic (is THAT why you didn't provide a link? weak, but no surprise there) http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/IraqCoverage/story?id=2052786 They are both talking revenge, I am more interested in defense. I doubt az would have ever been captured alive and I for how many times he's escaped close calls, they did the right thing by bombing him. You seem to be really dissappointed...maybe bigtexxx's seemingly inflammatory comments are a bit more accurate than you would care to admit.
Yeah, because it could very well mean that hundred or thousand of Iraqis will no longer be blown-up. What is there to be jubilant about?
Let's be real. Zarqawi deserved to die if anyone does. His death may save some lives in that it may take Al Qaeda some time to replace him. Maybe the Iraqi resistance will kick al Qaeda out of Iraq or Al Qaeda might stop killing people in Iraq as was the case before Tony and George started their war. To anwer Bigtexx's question it was a good job done well by our brave troops. Sadly this is a small and relatibely meaningless question. Zarqawi's death does not in any form justify the stupid Iraq War. As Cohen or Hayes might say,this is just an opinion. but it is one by an overwhlming iinternational opinion among religious, moral, legal, and other scholars as well as the public including belatedly the public in Britain and now the United States. The unnecessary Iraqi War has killed on the order of at least 100 times more innocents than Zarqawi. If you take into account our sanctions the order of magnitude is close to 1000 times. The fact that Tony blair and George Bush seem like nicer guys, or wear suits etc. does not make their killings significantly more justified.Tony Blair and Bush are trying to justfy their killings by Zarqawis deaths. State terrorism can be as bad and is usually worse due to its scale than the terrorism of small groups lik Zarqawi. At this point, the civil war that the United States has unleashed in Iraq is killiing more folks per month than the 2000 that I see estimated killed by Zarqawi. This is an evil no less than that of Zarqawi. For those who fail to see this, perhaps we could put a name on some of these leaders, build them up to be terror master minds, have numerous reports on their possible capture. This, however, does not fit into pro-war proaganda , shows the evil of the war so it will not be done.
Let's be real. Zarqawi deserved to die if anyone does. His death may save some lives in that it may take Al Qaeda some time to replace him. Maybe the Iraqi resistance will kick al Qaeda out of Iraq so Al Qaeda might stop killing people in Iraq as was the case before Tony and George started their war. To anwer Bigtexx's question it was a job done well by our brave troops. Sadly this is a small and relatively meaningless question. Our troops are brave and it is often the case that they do their jobs well even if the war itself was an unecessary evil. Zarqawi's death does not in any form justify the stupid Iraq War. As Cohen or Hayes might say, oppositon to the war is just an opinion. but it is one by an overwhlming iinternational opinion among religious, moral, legal, and other scholars as well as the public including belatedly the public in Britain and now the United States. The unnecessary Iraqi War has killed on the order of at least 100 times more innocents than Zarqawi. If you take into account our sanctions the order of magnitude is close to 1000 times. The fact that Tony blair and George Bush seem like nicer guys, or wear suits etc. does not change this. State terrorism can be as bad and is usually worse due to its scale than the terrorism of small groups lik Zarqawi. Aside from the massive killing by US policy toward Iraq, at this point, the civil war that the United States has unleashed in Iraq is killiing more folks per month than the 2000 that I see estimated killed by Zarqawi. This will continue after Zarqawi whose death has very little relevance to the civil war. This is an evil no less than those killed by Zarqawi. For those who fail to see this, perhaps we could put a name on some of these leaders, build them up to be terror master minds, have numerous reports on their possible capture. This, however, does not fit into pro-war proaganda of Blair and Bush and their pro-wr followes, and shows the evil of the war so it will not be done.
