No, you're inexplicably not one. But every one of our leaders and politicians is complaining, including the President. Is there something wrong with complaining about Americans who have performed in a morally reprehensible way?
These people were in that prison for a reason, folks. Maybe, maybe not. According to the Red Cross report: http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/10/iraq.abuse.main/index.html <I>The leaked report from February by the International Committee of the Red Cross found that <B>up to 90 percent of Iraqis held by U.S. and allied troops have been arrested by mistake</b>, and those considered likely intelligence sources faced coercion that in some cases was "tantamount to torture."</I>
It now looks like the cameras were all over the place and used as part and parcel of the "interrogation." Prisoners were threatened with the idea that these photos and videos would be released to family and friends, thus inducing more shame then jsut having this stuff done to you in front of other prisoners would create. If this is so, the documentation of the acts is not just representative of a few sadists gone bad but of accepted techniques that are beyond the pale.
I can't believe some of the rationalizations being floated around here. I really can't. If it reflected how Americans in general viewed this atrocity, I would be horrified. It doesn't, thank god.
Some folk don't get it. They sit in their ivory towers, and think we can do what we want to others with impunity.
They already do, whether we like it or not. Look what the Iraqis during the first Gulf War did to our allied POW's. Look what the Vietnamese, North Koreans, Japanese and Germans did. We've never had a war where POW's were treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention, even though all of those nations I mentioned were signatories to that treaty. I just don't see this as an indictment of the American military. The ugliest sort of war is the type we're in now.
If it got information without harming them physically, I don't have a problem with it. In fact, it probably saved their lives. And as for Deckard saying "that we can't do anything with impunity," last time I checked, we can. There is no higher power in the world than us, except for those (myself included) who believe in God. So who do we answer to? No one. Certainly not the sham that is the UN.
No doubt! Can you imagine a soldier picking up a copy of the Military Times in the local PX and reading this article?
Bama, if you're going to quote me, then use one of my posts. That's a quote from Cohen. I agree with him. I think you are dragging yourself and this country into the gutter by defending this. Yes, in war **** happens. That doesn't mean one should condone it or make excuses. If we lower ourselves to the lowest common denominator of society, and use that as a benchmark for excusable behavior, how can we then hold ourselves up to a high standard for the rest of the world to follow? Wait. How silly of me. We have the "power", so we're supposed to do whatever we please. Hitler did that. Stalin did that. Pol Pot did that. According to you and your clique, that's the company we should keep. Doesn't it sound absurd to be in a group like that? We are not perfect. As a nation, we never will be and no nation ever has been. But we keep telling the world that we are special and that they should follow our example. What kind of an example is this??
And as for Deckard saying "that we can't do anything with impunity," last time I checked, we can. There is no higher power in the world than us, Since you apparently missed the point, Deckard wasn't talking about what we can physically do, but what we can morally do. Some of you seem to think morality only applies when convenient. It's easy to do what's "right" when it's convenient - but if we're truly going to live up to the standards we claim to live by, we'd do what's right because it's right, regardless of the circumstances.
NJ: Next time one of your kids acts up you should probably stick a light fixture up his ass and make him masturbate in front of his sister. The American soldiers didn't send these Iraqis to a "time out." They raped them in every way they could think of -- the more sadistic, the better -- and they enjoyed the hell out of it. And they were proud of it. Yeah, stick a broomstick up your kid's ass and when CPS shows up tell them they hate America and should just leave if they don't like it. According to your reasoning, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Myers, Rice, Powell, McCain, the rest of Congress and the United States Army hates America and should leave. Either that our your incredibly few fellow sado-homo apologists should. I said it before and I'll say it again. Those of you who have no problem with these vicious, sadistic, psychosexual acts, and even applaud them, are perfect representatives of the America Osama Bin Laden wrongly imagines. It was you guys he was aiming for on 9/11 when all those innocent, good Americans were killed. Looks like he missed. For the record, whatever your stance on all this, I wouldn't back Osama if he'd succeeded in murdering those of you who represent the very worst imaginable in the American culture. Meanwhile you have no problem at all visiting these acts on ANY Iraqis, regardless of culpability for any crime. The only thing those people were definitely guilty of was having brown skin. But that's enough for you guys. I'm deeply ashamed to share a country with you sick nuts.
On a tangent, I heard Cheney's qualifications during the last election and considered him a big plus. Now, everytime I hear him quoted, it scare the cr*p out of me that he's one step away from being our President. He's frightening; I think we left him hidden in the basement too long.
Scary photo... Bush looks unhappy. Cheney and Rumsfeld both have a smirk on their face. And this is our country's leadership.
Who said we weren't concerned about the American bodies dragged through the street. I think all of us concerened. I think many of us were so concerned that we didn't feel it necessary to get into this war. As to the second part of your contention, why don't you at least read the posts about the military and red cross reports if you won't read the reports themselves. These people actually were often in fact a majority of the time they weren't a threat to the U.S. So why was Saddam such a bad guy in your opinion? I know why I hated Saddam and his sons. I hated them because they tortured people, raped them, and did cruel things. If that's ok to the Machivellian in you, what was it you had against Saddam to begin with? So here you believe that GWB, Rumsfeld etc. aren't being honest and are possibly lying. You have no evidence to back this up. So it must be no more than just a hunch. Yet you deny the evidence provided that shows they were lying prior to the war, despite the documentation being presented. By saying you think the only crime was taking pictures and not the acts themselves, you have shown what values you place in high regard. Or what values you don't regard at all.
OK, then tell me: if we justify something because terrorists probably do it too, who *is* setting the standards?
The point is that no one, except for us, plays by the "rules." What does that really mean? It means that war has no rules- win at any cost. Do I approve of people getting a thrill off something that is quite serious? No. That is where they crossed the line. When they got a rush off doing what they did, that's when it became wrong. But if you're strictly doing it to compell these militants to "come to Jesus" so to speak, I don't have a problem with it. If it saves American lives, screw 'em. I know it sickens folks, but like I've said a billion times- this is war. I wish there were a way to fight a war in a nice, civil manner by the rules. But from my experience, the Geneva Convention doesn't mean much when you have militant Islamo-nuts trying to either blow you or put a bullet in your head. The Geneva Convention, like most internationalist garbage, sounds nice in principle, but in practice, it does not work. Our enemies seldom if ever follow it and likely we will miss out on some intel because we will likely handcuff our interrogators because of this grand stupidity. And more troops will die because of that. And BJ, I know I'm on your ignore list, but know this. I don't like sharing our country with little whiners like yourself. Go to Europe where you and the other appeaser, socialist weasels belong. Cease your efforts of belittling our country in the name of your "values," of "fairness" and "tolerance." Leave us that want economic and personal liberty, because you are clearly not amongst that group.
if you think that there aren't any politicians out there (ones who have served our country) who don't find anything wrong with this (other than taking pictures of it) then you are sadly mistaken. in case you didnt know, there is an election in 6 months...do you really think these elected officials are going to speak their mind like I do and ruin their careers?
Its better than handcuffing myself to a tree and criticizing the very people who allow you the freedom to walk the streets everyday and post opinions on a board such as this one
