Your mother's situation is the one kind of situation where I have no problem with medically necessary abortions. She had a good reason (two good ones-- you and your sib) to make that tough choice. Hers was a strong decision. BTW, "virtually" captures this situation perfectly. But here we are mainly talking about the more meaningless kind of abortions that are only pursued to evade responsibility of children that are conceived. My position on medically necessary abortions has been published here for some two years from time to time. I know something of what I talk about. My first wife had two abortions before we had ever met. I'm not just some brute man trying to control the birth patterns of women I don't know and never will meet. I didn't marry a murderer. My interest is in saving the lives of innocent children and having people be accountable for their behavior-- even when it is reckless. There are other solutions.
giddyup said Were both abortions medically necessary? I mean no disrespect to you or your wife, but I think it's a valid question considering your stance in this discussion.
<b>Htownhero</b>: Please re-read what I wrote without such a vengeance in your heart to catch me in some kind of trap! Here's what I said, "My first wife had two abortions <b>before we had ever met</b>." One of the points of discussion about our pending marriage would be our refusal to consider abortion unless there were a medical necessity. Lest ye forget, <b>I'm a zealot</b>! By the way, this was about 10 years before I became any kind of Christian, so do away with your Lambs of God incriminations. We had no problems with this issue because my then-wife deeply regretted her past behavior and decisions. She was all the things that <b>dimsie</b> talks about: young, immature, unprepared, unwilling father-to-be and unwilling mother-to-be. But that was short-term thinking which led to abortion and the hurt it put on her still lives within her and, of course, those children are dead.
giddyup said Look man, I tried to ask it as politely as possible. I really don't see where all that vengeance in my heart stuff came from but it really doesn't matter. If you could suggest a way for me to ask in the future I will definitely consider it. But for now, you want to be pissy, then lets be pissy! You said "I didn't marry a murderer". Now you say it's ok because it was before you ever met. It's ok because it was before you were Christians. It's ok because shes really sorry about it now. Well I say it's one or the other. Either abortion is murder and your wife killed twice. Or abortion isn't murder in wich case you can honestly say "I didn't marry a murderer". It cant be both. Find one thing on this thread to back up that BS statement. Here, I'll repost both my responses to make it easier for you. Well???? Complete baseless crap!
<b>Htownhero</b>: I thought that "before we had ever met" was abundanatly clear. I am not offended by your question, but I am put off by your reading around an obvious statement in an effort to entrap me as a hypocrite. I never said it (an abortion) was okay because it was before we ever met. I described her as not a killer; that is far different. I did these things because of the way that those who are pro-Choice seems to want to characterize me as characterizing them as evil. I was merely pointing out that I married this woman anyway and make your own conclusions about my attitude about the evil. My first wife as never a Christian, so there is no we about that aspect of it. I'm not sure how you want me to respond to your conclusion about "baseless crap." What are you trying to insinuate? I think I have a lot of crap that is not at all baseless: I've had a constant point-of-view about abortion from the time before I was married, from the time before I was a Christian, from the time I met a woman I wanted to marry who had had abortions, up until this day. Now I am more of a Christian that ever before. Now I have 4 children of my own and I know something intimately about life that those who close their eyes and abort fetuses can only try and imagine. What is your opinion based on? I'm going to bed. If you still want to discuss this, I'll look for your reply in the AM.
By reading this thread I have become very adamant in my convivtion that giddyup is hipocricy made flesh. Rereading this all now makes me want to write even worse things, but I´ll try to restrain myself. Thanx Dimsie and Htownhero, and anyone else who did so, for fighting the "obvious truth"
I'm probably going to pose a silly question, and then not check this post again for 3 mos. or so (I'm sure it will still be active), but I'll proceed anyway. Could anyone fathom the normal rate of unsuccessful births? I'm talking about the woman's body exerting qc on the fetus, and kicking it out when she doesn't like it, or when there's genetic incompatibility with the father, yadda yadda yadda. If I told you it was 80% would you think that God wasn't as pro-life as some of us are? I think abortion is inherently wrong. But I also think that ripping little saplings out of the ground is inherently evil. I'm not too judgemental though (though every single one of us would barf if a woman told you she had 20 abortions or something). I just choose to make it a non-issue; because I feel it's inappropriate for males to claim provenience on a female issue (internal fertilization, required gestation, etc. such is the life of a placental mammal, blah blah) Anyway, have to go to dinner and get drunk and parasitize my wife. I'll talk to you guys later.
