not to jump into an argument, but Grizzled pointed this out himself earlier...he did not call rhester a liar. As someone who typically associates religion with negative instead of positive, I too generally appreciate rhester's posts as he comes at it, typically, with a sane, logical, controlled religious background and viewpoint. That said, whilst Grizzled has probably taken it too far (though he may be personally involved in the abortion debate somehow that makes him want to keep belaboring the point), his points about links, etc. are all basic ones that are typically required of any thread starter, especially in D&D. Grizzled did provide one that had an interesting, positive take on the "rule change". my personal opinion is that this (argument) is at its core about abortion and whether or not you agree with it. the use of federal funds, sending them elsewhere - including overseas, restrictions, no restrictions seem to be a different debate...or at least should be viewed as a separate issue.
MM, I also think that you are reacting more strongly than perhaps you should. Do you not see a difference between saying someone is being misleading in a few posts and calling that person a liar? Grizzled is not calling rhester a bad person. I appreciate that you know and respect rhester, and I think the vast majority of posters on this site also respect rhester (or at least as much as you can respect someone from their posts on a BBS). But even the best of posters/people can have subpar posts or approach a subject in an inflammatory/misleading manner.
you are saying he called the rhester a liar, no where does he do that. you're deliberately misleading
please tell me you're not serious. imagine for a minute if George W. Bush got on TV tonight and said, "I didn't lie to you about WMD's in Iraq. I just deliberately misled you." Give me a mother falcon break. Or if we wanna parse definitions to fit a statute, how about this: lie /laɪ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [lahy] Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, lied, ly⋅ing. –noun 1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood. de⋅ceive /dɪˈsiv/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [di-seev] Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -ceived, -ceiv⋅ing. –verb (used without object) 4. to mislead or falsely persuade others; practice deceit: an engaging manner that easily deceives. Now if you think rhester is a man who deliberately misleads, then defend that position. But don't hide behind words which you absolutely know the meaning of. That's just ridiculous.
This thread is amusing. I'm sure it's feeding off the Dark Side that typically follows an abortion topic.
Now I think you're being deliberately obtuse. Uh oh, I hope I didn't just call you stupid. ob⋅tuse /əbˈtus, -ˈtyus/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [uhb-toos, -tyoos] Show IPA Pronunciation –adjective 1. not quick or alert in perception, feeling, or intellect; not sensitive or observant; dull. 2. not sharp, acute, or pointed; blunt in form. 3. (of a leaf, petal, etc.) rounded at the extremity. 4. indistinctly felt or perceived, as pain or sound. stu·pid (stōō'pĭd, styōō'-) Pronunciation Key adj. stu·pid·er, stu·pid·est 1. Slow to learn or understand; obtuse. 2. Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes. 3. Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake. 4. Dazed, stunned, or stupefied. 5. Pointless; worthless: a stupid job. n. A stupid or foolish person.
I'm certainly stupid, dylan. No argument. My wife agrees. rhester isn't a deliberate misleader, manipulator or any simile of those words such as liar.
This is getting out of hand. I'm going to state that I know Rhester and know that he is a good man. Even before I met him in person though from what I read of him on this board I knew that he was a good man. What I admire most about Rhester is that he is humble and unlike some of us, myself included, he doesn't try to bludgeon people rhetorically with his knowledge and he also doesn't use rhetorical tricks to mislead or trap. What I have noticed about him is that he does state his views and sometimes those views aren't completely thought out but he will acknowledge that himself. Rhester is posting about an inflammatory subjects but this is the D & D it exists to debate and discuss inflammatory subjects. Rhester will often state his position in a blunt manner but I don't think he is doing so to be deliberately inflammatory but he does have strong views on certain issues and is willing to state so. I agree with Grizzled that Rhester should provide some links and could maybe structure his argument better but I think its unwarranted to call him misleading or that he is making some veiled attack.
Hey, didn't think I would get a chance to post again... It is obvious to me that I mislead Grizzled. Now that I understand the situtation better, I can say that it isn't a great matter, I understand why it happens and I still don't have warm fuzzy's about alot of things our country does for other nations, unless it is feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and teaching people how to have a better life. As far as abortion I totally oppose abortion, and never knew I posted otherwise. However I find there are several tragedies in the abortion debate. First of all abortion isn't a simple issue there has been a great villanizing of women who support abortion or have abortions. There has been much damage done to women just debating abortion IMO. I have never joined a pro-life group and I have been asked often to do it. ANd they constantly send me information and emails (you have to be a pastor to understand that) I never saw the need for a crusade against abortion. What about the women who have made that very difficult decision. I love those women, especially the teens. I have felt bad even discussing abortion here afterwards thinking of female posters who would be hurt. (I make mistakes and I have posted alot I regretted later) What about the broken lives, the poor, the desparate who despite sex ed get pregnant and face fear and also are encouraged to get an abortion. I hate the thought of threatening them in any way. What about the women who suffer physical and psychological problems from abortion, they need love and help. Sure, I am absolutely bummed that pregnancies are terminated, but to just be a up front anti-abortion/ pro life positions are useless without doing something to love people. I know there are people who oppose abortion work to prevent them in a caring and compassionate and ethical manner. My life doesn't lend itself to sitting back and arguing issues. I spent alot of my evening last night with a young man and young woman praying with them, they are getting off cocaine and CPS has their children and they asked me to come over and talk to them. They are not married and they told me their lives were a mess. They have nothing, the lights aren't on in the apartment they just moved in to. I cried hearing their story. Drugs, alcoholism, girl pregnant at 15, she has lived on the streets the past weeks, he got back together with her and they happened to move into an apartment next door to an elderly lady in our church. Laura, from our church invited her (the young lady) to come to church this past Sunday. The young lady has been diagnosed bi-polar and she talked out loud throughout church time. Afterwards she came and cried in my (oops) wife's arms and I prayed for her and her daughter. We got a call yesterday to come meet her boyfriend. We met them last night my wife spent time with them and we could see hope on their faces. Their story is very similar to my own story, and they could relate to that. This is how most every day goes for me. I shared this just to say, this is reality for me, this is how I am thankful I can spend my time. This is how I frame abortion, teen suicide, drug addiction, broken homes, fatherless children and alot of other things. Whatever my wife and I can do, with God's help we do our best. Don't blast me about tooting my horn. Please I only say that it isn't healthy to get to carried away on the internet, especially the BBS. This is fun, we are Rocket fans but real life is happening. I am facing a few health issues and I was trying to resolve this I am going to need to take some time away (if I can ) I respect Grizzled, Sishir is a great friend and also one of the best posters here. And he and I are soon going to have a beer (I'm sure I'll be the one with the root beer ) and go surfing (if I can talk him into the water). MadMax is one of the most sincere and caring person I've met, good friend. Move on, love the D&D
I'm not a praying person but hope everything works out for you and let me know if I can help you with anything when I am in Houston. I've actually surfed before, almost drowned last time I did though. I get the feeling the trip at the end of February will be tight but maybe when I come down in March with students might have some time to catch some waves.
I didn't call him a liar, but I did say that he was being deliberately misleading. I don't define those two things exactly the same way but you can if you like. I don't think it's that important a point for our purposes here. I think it's been shown that he was being misleading as well. Even the link he eventually posted contained this paragraph: So even this article contains information that suggests that getting rid of this policy will reduce abortions, and this suggests that the pro-life position on this perhaps should be the one Obama has taken against this policy. rhester may feel that this it is not true, but if so then he is obliged to make some kind of reasonable argument as to why it isn't true. Instead he simply stated as a foregone conclusion that getting rid of this policy was a pro-abortion position, and he withheld the information from his own link that suggested otherwise, and then stalled when he was asked to provide the link. I don't see how you could see that as being anything other than being deliberately misleading. This is a debate and discussion board, after all, and if someone starts a thread here they need to be prepared to engage in ethical debate and discussion.
I'm very sorry to hear that rhester. I wish you a speedy recovery. I have a great deal of respect for some of the things you say here rhester, but some other things really make me shake my head. No one is perfect, of course, but you really floor me sometimes. We can pick that up when you get back if you wish. Get well soon.
