depend on how an individual does see such image of a 13 week fetus : 1- an alien from X-File character 2-helpless Human
Shame comes into play when you have no logical arguments and your only suggestion is to "increase the adoption rate" and "jail women". Given that you won't actually support anything that reduces abortions, your constant mansplaining about how abortion is bad (DUH) is annoying at best, VERY counterproductive at worst. yeah, excuse me mr.melodramatic "murder of the millions, but I won't do jack s**t, here's a carcass to guilt you" if I'm being melodramatic. If you can't handle a f**king message board, that's your deal LOL. whoops, people call you out on stupid s**t you say that makes no sense, and they're not always Mr.Rogers motherf**kas about it. Why don't you take personal responsibility for proposing failed policies and not doing anything about the abortion rate? If you're going to be useless, you should at least suffer in silence. oh wait, it's not your personal responsibility. Jesus, I wish there was a personal responsibility wand. Maybe you'd stop posting and doing positive things. Maybe global warming would halt. Maybe there'd be no crime. Maybe people would choose vegetables over starving other people. Maybe people wouldn't carry crushing amounts of debt. Only God (or maybe Allah) knows what could be done by flipping "personal responsibility on"! Yeah, I own the 50 million babies or whatever some s**t you say. Talk about responsibility. Sure, I kill 50 million babies by proposing solutions that reduce the abortion rate and don't imprison millions of women. Whatever. Arguing in a meaningful way means you can disagree. I've actually made a statistical argument for you if you read carefully (state-by-state variations in abortion rates within the United States). But the fact you can't even grasp onto straws I'm throwing you shows how hopeless "debating" you would be. blah blah blah, I'm the Devil for saying that your nonsense won't reduce the abortion rate and for proposing things that will that you won't sacrifice a cent to do. I mean, aside from the babies I eat in my live-session of a "Modest Proposal", I don't think things are all too bad on my moral chequebook. My hostility is due to the fact that this isn't a debate anymore. I just want to be very sadistic to your way of thinking. Don't confuse this with actual anger on my part. I'm very comfortable with my position, just like how comfortable I am that your mode of data-devoid, irrational thinking needs to die a swift death. Again, you'd rather pay thousands to jail a woman than give a cent in support of families based on absolutely no data or logic. Good luck with that.
They have determined already that a woman has the right to have an abortion until a baby is born. It is based on allowing a person to make a very personal decision. The law should not enter into a woman's body to try to control her uterus. Protect the liberty of women, not religious beliefs. This is a country that places the rights of the citizens over the beliefs of religion. That is America. You are the one promoting we pass a law based on unclear facts and your beliefs. That is eeking me out. However you like to slice it.
1. What exactly in my argument is not logical? Change a heart, eliminate the problem is totally logical. 2. What do I not support that will reduce abortions? 3. My "mansplaining" is saving the lives of millions of young girls. Well, there's a nerve. This awesome legal policy thanks to Roe v. Wade has resulted in the death of some 50+ Million babies... and the failed policies are mine? I know lots of families where this policy has worked perfectly-- meaning no babies died. No wand, just a want. Are you disputing the number of deaths by abortion since 1973? Is it not ironic that you propose solutions which would theoretically reduce the need for the law you so steadfastly embrace? You have this tenuous claim that your "solutions" would reduce the number of abortions and, if I remember coorrectly, in the past you asserted that were abortion to become illegal again that the number would go UP... which made no sense then or now. There are many factors that can lead to reduced abortion rates. For example, Bill Clinton's public service announcements for oral sex introduced that act to a whole generation of middle schoolers who are now child-bearing age as are those youngsters that followed the insertion of this phenomena into school-age culture. How many women decided on their own to not engage in sexual activity until marriage or just to have their baby without the counseling help from PP? How did the HIV/AIDS epidemic in the 80s and 90s and onward affect sexual behavior? All these things limit sexual intercourse and so, automatically, the potential need for abortion. Then I recall the video I posted of the former Director of a PP facility who stated that condom distribution was a calculated part of their business plan to increase the demand for abortion services. I'm very comfortable with my position and I'm not hostile. Not my preference. See above.
Have you ever admired a picture of a loved one? Unless you are saying this is a replica (if that's what it is) is deceptively humanized, you are calling everyone a half-wit who holds onto a photo or video collection of precious family memories. Is that really your stance?
My brother and his wife lost a daughter in the 8th month of pregnancy when she was strangled by her own umbilical cord. They have kept a statue of a baby angel by their fireplace for 23 years; are you going to make fun of them too?
No, I'm stating that using a clay polymer model of a fetus to pluck on the emotional string is disingenuous.
clearly unhappy creature suffers from dispersion of mind. i know.. for you this is not real, just an ultra sound
What even is your position at this point? http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=267680&highlight=giddyup+jail&page=29 http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=267680&highlight=giddyup+jail&page=49 Can you correlate the lowering of the abortion rate to your number of posts? LOL. Can you explain why abortions worldwide aren't correlated with criminalization? If you can explain away why abortions fell in the 1990s due to the introduction of oral sex (???), why don't you spend time explaining the pleasures of oral sex to teenagers instead of talking nonsense on a forum? You'd be doing your own cause better, seeing as how abortion rates are near pre-Roe v Wade lows and past it for most key demographics (the young ones you mention)! Do you know what illegal means and are you prepared for its consequences? You toss out the word without any scope of what it would mean. If the abortion rate is 3-5x the one in America in Latin America, why are you limiting your "pro-life" concerns to only America? If you think Roe v. Wade killed 50 million extra babies, why don't you support medical research that has saved millions more, if not billions? If you can so easily explain rises and falls in the abortion rate, why haven't you been doing so before, and why can't you comment on why Western Europe is so much more responsible than America? Why are you willing to spend $20,000 to jail women, but not willing to spend a cent to their welfare? Even assuming that both do reduce the abortion rate, why the former not the latter? Here are the instances where I have seen you fail to support policies that are humanistic and correlated with reducing abortions (both spontaneous/induced) 1) Failing to donate to March of Dimes and medical research when prompted 2) Refusing to consider even spending a cent to increase the socioeconomic status of women, even though worldwide that is the strongest factor correlated to reduced abortion rates, not jailtime. 3) Refusing to consider Plan B. 4) Looking to shut down PP over what we now know are fraudulent videos, even though abortion services are only 3% of the medical services they provide. 5) Given your stance on not giving medical providers money, or paying one cent for women's welfare, hard to believe you would support Title X which provides contraceptives and cancer screening to disadvantaged families, but prove me wrong here I don't know why you think you swearing a whole lot less in this thread than the last one is a point worth pointing out. ohh you're not hostile. LOL. who gives a s**t. Hell yeah, I'm "hostile". I'll be hostile until you get out of that pudgy complacency and delusion you've placed yourself in (you've added another piece to the cake with your statement on mansplaining). I despise the way you think. Don't worry, I can separate you the person from the ideas: you have yourself a wonderful day wherever you are. But the fact is your ideas and you way of thinking need to die a swift death in the marketplace of ideas. I think they already are, and will further, but I like to beat up on it along the way because it makes no sense for me that you would think the way you do. Before you spaz out, I am perfectly capable of respecting pro-life arguments, just not the ones your thinking delivers. Let me specify the strains of your thinking that need to die: 1) slowness to make your own statistical arguments, or rely on any data 2) spurious correlations when any are made, with very few considerations of even time-span, and ways to isolate effects 3) an irrational push to sadism over compassionate solutions, demonstrated by your inability to grasp your base instinct of wanting to jail people would cost infinitely more than the zero cents you refuse to give 4) blanket assumptions about large groups of people 5) a delusion that shaming people will make them "personally responsible" 6) inability to look past the whole "abortion is bad" to what should be done policy-wise. Zero concrete policy proposals. 7) inability to look at countries past the United States 8) inability to act, and smug satisfaction at doing nothing actionable You yourself, have a wonderful day, but please don't bring your strain of thinking with you. Remember, you can always learn and change
I only cited the Clinton PS announcement with a couple of other significant factors that would, in fact, also contribute to the lowering of the abortion rate. You seem to have this notion of an inverse contribution. Legal status of abortion reduces the incidence but illegal status would increase the incidence. I can't imagine how that would work... Don't know WTF you are getting at here... $10 or 10 days in jail. I'm an American. I do support medical research-- just not all of it, I suppose you are referring to that which aggressively collects fetal cells? Since anyone involved is probably lying about the numbers, who knows how offensive that problem might be to pro-Lifers. No one said it was easily explained. You are the one "easily" correlating it to Roe v Wade and even admitting that there is no proven causality. I'm just pointing up some of the obvious co-factors that you have eciipsed. Where did I say that? There you go again attributing recklessly. 1. Are you following me? I have a daughter born with a birth defect.... 2. Have you hacked my bank account? 3. Why should I consider Plan B. My wife and I gave up The Pill when we learned how it worked. 4. PP is over-rated. Not sure how the videos were "proven" fraudulent. Have you seen or read what former PP employees have said? What do you expect current PP execs to say? 5. I believe that some of my tax dollars DO pay for women's welfare. Why is it that you think you know every thing about every thing-- even things to which you are not remotely privy? Because I'm not and I usually don't. The pattern is for me to criticize the problem and for you to attack me personally-- vapidity, et al... I have consistently pointed out for years that half the aborted fetuses are girls. In fact, whenever I refer to a lost child through abortion I almost always refer to "her" for the dramatic way it flies in the face of being called a misogynist. I'm intent on saving little girls lives... and your side is not! I will. I am. My daughter, her husband and her year-old baby daughter are visiting. Not an hour ago, she walked for the first time! Kids are awesome... I'd like an example of a pro-Life argument that you respect, please! 1. 0 for 0 is 0. 2. If you use zeros, you don't have to worry about isolating effects which is pretty impossible to do anyway, since there are no control factors in the experiment! 3. you don't know what you are talking about. I have a desire to prevent more than anything. Perhaps we have to criminalize, but I don't focus on that. You drag it out of me or put the words in my mouth to gain your own advantage, but that is not my "pudgy, vapid" preference. 4. I talk about what should be possible; you are the one making certain predictions. 5. Again, the "shaming" is your language not mine 6. I have a simple policy that you don't like so you don't even acknowledge it. 7. My solution would work cross-culturally and -nationality because the instinct to preserve and protect is natural. 8. The action I promote is one of accepting responsibility and lifetime commitment.... or making those arrangements for YOUR child via adoption.
Hey, let me simplify a few things for you: Giddy, here's how I know you won't spend a cent for maternal welfare: you said it yourself: Again and again, in fact. Here's your most notable instance, repeated again: How do I know you didn't donate to March of Dimes and medical research when prompted? http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?p=10196170&highlight=giddyup+march+dimes#post10196170 Pinging onto your most ridiculous point: Again, how can you explain the variation in abortions in societies where women are shamed and abortions are criminalized such as heavily religious Latin America. Why are they so irresponsible? How can they be more responsible? Is it a steady stream of Giddy posts that will get them there? Your solution and thinking are theater and based on nothing. Here's a hint: I've already hinted at a pro-life argument I'd respect. I'll spoonfeed you one: http://www.lifetechconference.org/slides/2012/New_2012_Handout_2.pdf There was also another article that compared different states and compared variations in restrictive access laws which had some interesting regression results and correlations between certain informed consent laws, and parental involvement laws and a lower incidence of risky sexual behavior/abortion rate. Of course, those same studies also acknowledge the widespread role of contraceptives and sex education such as knowing about Plan B. The failing of these studies is largely related to how they don't view the context of the United States itself (a country with poor family welfare initiatives, at least compared to several European nations) and how decreasing abortion doesn't have to be a proxy exercise in cruelty when there are other policy levers that could be much more effective at reducing abortion. Anyways, I feel like I'm arguing both sides right now more effectively than how you can reason on this topic, so meh. You seem to be struggling to understand the issue, and can't seem to even remember your constantly conflicting positions. Enjoy your life and whatever. I don't think you're a misogynist, I think your strain of thinking will die with you and you've clearly demonstrated to me why anybody who thinks like you is losing in the marketplace of ideas.
Awhile back I approved the hiring of a young paralegal to work in our office. I wasn't sure what she would do as we have sufficient support staff. She was quite beautiful and young and there was natural tension and even rumors of her dating an associate attorney while still providing favors to me. It was all false. She was shy but bright and sensitive. I became a mentor of sorts for her. She became quite depressed and admitted she was pregnant and feared it would ruin her life. Within a few hours of talking I had agreed to help her abort the fetus, hide her absence from her co-workers and provide a $20,000 loan so she felt secure. The fetus was aborted and she is doing great. My wife has developed a great bond as well.
another true story by Nook, she needed 20,000$ so she can afford to abort a boat load of fetus while she went on a 30 minutes minor surgery did you wear a wig and shave your legs to cover up her absence for a day too?
No wig and no shaving of the legs. As a founding Partner I have control of discretionary spending and after talking to my wife decided it was a wise choice. I have given a great deal to PP over the years. I have seen the societal differences having greater health options for women have brought, including the morning after pill and abortion. She was very close to ruining her life, she was miserable and needed help. I know women and their rights are really not important to you exiled, but we do things different here. Akbar can't force women to be covered in head to toe clothing because you cannot keep your paws off them. We also don't stone our women or wait until they fall asleep to go take a turn with the family lamb.
No thanks. You are not to be trusted. You mis-represent my POV and you quote things which I may or may not have said but since there is no context there is no discerning. Even though we've never met, you know about my personal life; I'm not sure how. I'm going to go enjoy my grandaughter rather than slog through this crap again. NOTHING'S CHANGED FOR ME! The pro-Choice side barely has a popular majority and you act like it's a 95--5 split... in your favor: http://www.gallup.com/poll/183434/americans-choose-pro-choice-first-time-seven-years.aspx
You are one to be talking about keeping your hands off someone. Favors? Of course, you're probably just talking out of your ass....
I gave you the context LOL, I linked to your exact posts so you could see the context. Not my fault if you don't choose to go through your own muddied thoughts. That's not your personal life I'm talking about, that's your stated beliefs on this forum. I could give a rat's ass about your personal life in this context. Does it look like my line of argumentation cares about how popular my beliefs are? I don't think anybody can change your belief system as it's constructed--but eventually, your strain of thinking will die out. I'm not even talking about pro-choice or pro-life, I'm talking about your inability to reason with data and your smug, irrational venting. Go play with your granddaughter, I hope you both have a wonderful day.
