Yeah because all of the pro-choicers are so willing to compromise on this issue. I agree that a lack of compromise is a problem with this issue but you seem to imply it's only a fault on the side of the pro-life crowd.
I would suggest that most bars probably already do this. I saw a manager of a bar in Clear Lake escort a pregnant woman to the door because he didn't want to serve a pregnant woman. It seems that you are all for unenforceable paper laws that will do nothing to solve the problem. How many pregnant women are taken to the hospital for drug and/or alcohol abuse? I wasn't aware that such behavior was an epidemic. It IS impossible. Women could still go to liquor stores, drink in the first trimester (when it does the most damage anyway), buy beer and/or wine at the grocery store, etc. Are you suggesting that we make all of the grocers in the land crusaders against pregnant drinking? Impossible.
Thanks... I like to think that we still have some rights, but am being proen more and more wrong every day.
I have talked to a LOT of pro-choicers and I have not had one disagree with my compromise suggestion yet. I have only had one pro-lifer tell me that they would accept such a compromise. You do the math.
I don't like math . Even if I wished to, I do not know the value of X (the definition of a LOT which I would assume is more than a lot). I also would wish to know how the question was asked and in what situation so I can attempt to determine the margin of error.
This exercise to me demonstrates fairly well that a fetus or fertilized ova is not the same as a human life.How many fetuses would it take before you abandon the baby? For me the number is infinate. I would under any circumstances save the baby, even over 1,000,000 fetuses. As such I don't see how one can consider abortion the same as murder. Would you loose a finger to save a fertalized ova? How about a hand? Or a leg? Personally the circumstances where I would save the ova most closely match to those where I would save medical samples. Can you at least comprehend why I might see a disconnect here, as opposed to support of abortion being some sort of mustache twirling villianous act?
I am EXTREMELY hard pressed to listen to someone Dog Out Mother Theresa I'm not Catholic but that woman was a Saint . . her life is beyond inspiration Rocket River
The disconnect is this: The decision to save a three-month-old over a fetus (or embryo) is not one of logic, it's one of passion. Let me give you a corollary: Same burning hospital, two babies, can only save one. Baby #1: Healthy, but no connection to you. Baby #2: Sickly, 30% chance of survival, but he's your son. (I think 30% is the survival rate of a fertilized egg.)
If we encouraged more men having sex with men and women having sex with women maybe we could really put a dent in abortions. Gay marriage too. Barring rape, I can think of few cases where gay parents would have abortions because they went to so much money and effort to conceive. I really have no trouble differentiating an early stage embryo from a person/individual. That embryo has no consciousness (at least according to 99% of neuroscientists), no feelings (ditto), no chance at life unless another human carries and develops it in her body for 6+ months. Yes it is a potential human. So will a group of any live human cells shortly (cloning). Now once the fetus could develop and live on its own (based on general medical scientific consensus) IMO it is a gray area and I would not support abortion without restrictions (see case below). Now would I want my wife to abort even at the earliest stages, absolutely not. That is our potential future child and I’d want to see how he/she becomes and become part of our family. However if that baby threatened her body and whether our other born child would have a living mother--that would be an enormously complicated and difficult decision that we would make with consultation with our physicians but where a judge/the state should have no part.
Mother's Life > Unborn Child's Life Unborn Child's life > inconvience of the Mother It amazes me how we will say IT IS THE MOTHER'S BODY . .but in child support a man cannot say IT'S MY WALLET In Fact If the man states he don't want the kid we will still bend him over not matter how inconvient no matter *when* he stated he did not want it Rocket River
I always ask it in the same way... If this compromise (having explained it previously as pro-choicers agree to limit abortions to the first 12-15 weeks of pregnancy and pro-lifers agree not to push for further restrictions) were available and you were the deciding vote for your side, would you accept the compromise or not.
The father's choice is whether or not to take measures to prevent pregnancy. The woman's choice extends further as it involves her body.
They both could have taken measures you cannot hold one party more responsible than the other if she gets a . . get out of parent hood free card. . . so should he Rocket Ricer
Yes. And the mortality rate for the mother is greater for giving birth than having an abortion. This is one element frequently not dicussed when folks try to discuss the risks and dangers of abortion, as if human pregnancies and childbearth are not dangerous to all parties (why do you think OBGYNs have among the highest insurance premiums, humans have a hard time giving birth to humans safely--even with the best medical care available). Yes I do know you can argue the mortality rate for the aborted is 100%--but then we get to the personhood/when is a fetus a rights protected human question. If the pregnant female is a child the physical (including their life and ability to have future children) and non-physical threats to her are even greater.
I believe that saving my son would be the course of action, and that it would be an emotional decision. I can tell you right now, though, I would spend the rest of my life feeling guilty for not saving the other child. In my mind I would personally recognise that my actions were selfish, and I would have dificulty with that internal discord. In my scenario I would feel no shame at letting the embryos die, just as I would feel no shame at letting the tissue cultures die. I am absolutely sure that that is how I would feel. If you think I'm lying or confused, I'm sorry. I don't know how to explain it any clearer. Let me ask, how do you feel about removing life support from someone who is clearly brain dead with nothing left (I was going to as about Terry Shivo but I will accept that some people thought she was really conscious)? From my perspective once the body has lost the mind, it is essentially a big hunk of meat. I have no issue with disconnecting in that instance. I'm going to guess that people who don't care for abortions will feel differently? One other thing. I'm going to bet that the people who believe in preventing believe strongly in the concept of a soul which appears at the moment of conception and which disapears from this realm at the moment of death. Is that correct?
So the mother is blameless for the pregnancy? That makes no sense. Women are just as able to prevent pregnancy as men are. This argument is without merit in my opinion. Even if we go by your rather poor description of responsibility, should the man be forced to pay for the child if he used protection?
And you do? I see. I thought society was supposed to speak up and stand up for the weak, the forgotten, and the innocent? But you switch it to "Butt out!"
