I agree, and I think RA does too. And I like the fact that Adelman's not scared to make a switch when things start to get stale with the rotation.
I agree, my point is that now there is really no place for him..... on the Rockets outside of occassional contributor. Give me an average defender who can play offense over an elite defender who the other team doesn't even have to guard....any day of the week. I think if Chuck's contract was up this year, the Rockets would probably let him walk or offer him a LOT less money. DD
http://blogs.chron.com/nba/2007/08/sunshine_state_of_mind_for_me.html Three year contract with a team option for the fourth. Yall should know better than to question my Chuck knowledge.
The league is full of average defenders who can play a little bit of offense. Raef Lafrentz, Donyell Marshall, SAR, Mark Blount, Primo Brezec, Brian Cardinal (no d there), Mikki Moore, Troy Murphy (no d there either), Stromile...........the list goes on and on. Just look at what they make and how much they contribute. Oh, they may be all be able to score in some form or fashion, but is it effective and efficient? And they only look their best when they are surrounded by other top notch players that can allow them to operate. They're all second tier offensive players AT BEST. Some of them are really only 3rd or 4th tier offensive players when you look at their stats and see their low shooting percentages, high turnovers, and poor efficiency numbers. Chuck Hayes at $2 million or less represents value and that contract is easily tradable in a package with other talent because other teams see the value in having a Chuck Hayes on their roster. He is a top 10 defender in the NBA.
I don't think the contract he's on is really a burden but i agree with you're analysis of the player whole heartedly. It is especially evident with teams that are already good defensively. That's the reason the pistons let big ben walk and the bulls will rue the day they paid him. Defensive stoppers are a must for contenders but you shouldn't pay them like stars. Battier is pushing IMO, i think this team is good enough defensively that I would trade him if you could get a great scorer in return.
Wow alot of chuck hating going on at the beggining of this thread, did you not see we took control of that game when chuckleford came in and shut down Aldridge?
Scola was doing fine against him until he got all those ticky tack fouls called against him.... Chuck is great at D,and SUX at O......no hating, just truth. DD
Chuck for $2 Million is like paying 80 cents on a dollar, it's a good value. I disagree with other posters saying we don't need Chuck with our current roster. When the management signed him, they weren't signing him as the main guy anyway, but rather, a specialist to shot down the other team's key guy. We have plenty of scorer in the team already, when Deke retired, the only true defense guys left are Battier and Chuck, so we need Chuck. If you check out Chuck's stat on the court, he really did bring the defense to another level.
No doubt he is an elite defender, the problem is that the rest of our team isn't and we are going to have to score points to actually win the game. I like Chuck, and I will concede that his contract has some value being so low, I was just saying that I think if it was THIS year he would not get the same contract as his role is going to be diminishing significantly over the next couple of years. DD
I would trade him to get a PRIMARY SCORER along with our other assets. But I would not trade him just to get a scorer. BJax and Luther are scorers. I'd trade Hayes if we had to along with BJax and Luther for a guy like Artest or Mike Miller. I'd hate to sacrifice him for Mike Miller since Miller doesn't play D but I'd be willing to include him in an Artest trade because Artest is a top 10 defender as well. We may be good defensively right now. But we are in danger of not being very good defensively because we have some of our main offensive players like Scola and Landry that ARE NOT good defenders. We get rid of Hayes and do not get another big defensive presence then we essentially are relying on Shane and other perimeter defenders who are shaky at best. Our defense works well because of the combination of talented defenders in Shane, Deke, and Hayes, combined with the hustle of Scola, combined with good defenders in Yao and McGrady. You start removing the supports of that defense and the whole thing could fall pretty fast. I do not want to play Nugget style basketball because we will not win a championship that way. I want to find ways to add to the offense of this team without taking away from the defense. In my opinion, that starts by looking to upgrade our backcourt with a MORE EFFICIENT scorer than Rafer, Luther, and BJax. I think we can accomplish that without giving up Hayes. We've got a good balance of scoring/defense from our front line with our current rotation once Yao returns. In fact, I don't think there is another team out there that has as good a front court rotation as we do when everyone is healthy. The game of basketball is about spread. Just because you can score, if you give everything you get up on the other end you are a net negative. Or if you are a lockdown defender, but you can't even catch the bball, you could jam up the whole offense. Hayes is very bad offensively, no doubt about it. But he can catch the ball and he can finish when he is open. He is not totally inept, just close. And he is a top 10 defender. If you are going to include him in a trade for more offense, it really should be for a top 20 scorer, or at least a guy that has the capability of being a top 20 scorer when given the minutes, since we are trying to create spread. When Hayes is given the minutes, he is a proven top 10 defender and a very good rebounder. If we traded Hayes, we definitely need a replacement player that can bring the defense like he does. The reason Hayes plays is because our defense is lacking. If our defense wasn't lacking then there would be no need for him. So, it should be obvious that he is needed out there since he's getting close to 20 mpg. Because if our defense was good enough without him or our offense was good enough to outscore the opponent without him, then he wouldn't be out there. When you look at the games where Scola and Landry were lighting it up and we were blowing out teams, we didn't need Hayes. But when you look at games like last night and you see Scola and Landry just totally giving it up down there in the paint, you gotta put someone out there that can create spread by shutting down the opponent. Scola is in foul trouble, Rafer was out, so it was obvious we were not going to be a high scoring team when your other top scorers are not playing or playing poorly. So, Adelman went for the spread. We got a little more O and D from Brooks and a little more D from Hayes. Bottom line is, until Scola and Landry become more proficient defenders, there is definitely a place for a Hayes type player on this team.
For $2 million a year, you could do a lot worse than Chuck. At least he plays hard and is a team player, even if he can't shoot.
I concede that, my point was that I don't think the Rockets offer that much if his contract was up THIS year. DD
They might not offer 4 years since the emergence of Scolandry. But they'd probably offer right around $2 million. How low do you think you could go and Hayes not say, "I'll try the market". I think he could very easily get $8 mill over 4 years from some team looking for a piece to their championship puzzle. San Antonio would take him and beat us to death with him.
Obviously Landry's knee is not 100%. RA needs to rest Landry and let Harris pick up some PT during the rest of the road trip. Who knows what he can do? Let's find out
We are have been a great defensive team for years now. We've been like this since before Hayes got here and before Battier got here. Its no knock on them they are great at what they do but we have some solid team defensive principles and that is the real key to our defense. Luther Head and Bobby Jackson ain't gonna cut it as you're 2nd and 3rd best perimeter scorers. At some point you have to give up a little to get a little. If we were even decent offensively there would be no need for guys like Hayes as was shown during the streak when Scolandry was at their best.
The original post sums up my thoughts exactly. Guys like Alston, Battier, and Landry are a bit banged up. I thought we really could've used some of the bench guys in the last few games. Maybe they'll get some floor time tonight against the Sonics.
