I was disagreeing with this by making that comment: I was raised Christian but have explored other religions and beliefs and find comments like his pretty arrogant and ignorant of other philosophies, religions and belief systems---many offer paths to a better life. Many of those raised in ancient India, Tibet, or China in the ancient past would not have heard Jesus' teachings but I'm sure have led and lived noble lives...enough to enjoy some aspect of whatever afterlife may await them. Many of Jesus' teachings in fact overlap those of other religions and philosophies of the ancient east.
Christian love: "I really love you but if you don't agree with my philosophy you are burning in hell for eternity."
I believe in forgiveness, but only if the assailants want to be forgiven. If the assailants would be willing to do it again, I would want them punished.
The direct answer is that unbelievers suffer eternal punishment in hell. Doesn't sound very nice, but that's what the scriptures say. Below is a particularly relevant verse for this discussion. Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
I don't know how you could ever forgive someone unless they expressed true remorse. Otherwise, it seems like you are condoning their mentality.
That isn't what Jesus said. In the bible Jesus talked about many different ways to enter the kingdom of heaven. On the cross when the criminal next to him asked Jesus to remember him when he saw God, Jesus told that criminal that the criminal would be in heaven. So according to that example someone can ask to be remembered to God and enter the kingdom of heaven. In Mathew, Christ told his disciples that if they forgave others, they too would be forgiven, so in that instance forgiving others will get you into heaven. Christ mentioned other people going to heaven for giving away their wealth on multiple occasions. So in those instances giving away a person's wealth will get them into the kingdom of heaven. I'm not saying your wrong. I'm just pointing that Jesus told different people different things about entering the kingdom of heaven. Those are things that the savior Jesus told them.
Jesus died on the cross for the forgiveness of sins. Not just some sins, but all sins. So many people forget that. The entire reason for the crucifixion was that Jesus suffered and died for our sins. During his life, he provided an example of love and tolerance which Christians are supposed to strive for. Sadly, too many Christians focus on certain excerpt of scripture and use it for an excuse to completely ignore the rest of it and say and do hurtful things to other people.
So... one of my brothers committed an unforgivable act to my father. My father then decides to punish all of his siblings and their descendants and then decides to have ONE of us, who also had nothing to do with the original sin, suffer an agonizing death and then everything else is forgiven (basically a BLOOD SACRIFICE). Some form of justice.
The description of Hell varies from religion to religion, but seeing as this is a Christian bashing forum, I've taken the Liberty to post a few descriptions of Hell from The Bible. Hell is essentially eternal seperation from God. Hell is a place of conscious torment. Matthew 13:50 “furnace of fire…weeping and gnashing of teeth” Mark 9:48 “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched” Revelation 14:10 “he will be tormented with fire and brimstone” Hell is also eternal and irreversible. Revelation 14:11 “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night” Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death, the lake of fire” Revelation 20:15 “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire” Here is more of what The Bible has to say about hell. Punishment in Hell is Eternal Isaiah 66:24 "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind." Daniel 12:2 Many of those whose bodies lie dead and buried will rise up, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting disgrace. Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It's better to enter eternal life with only one hand than to go into the unquenchable fires of hell with two hands. Jude 7 And don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with immorality and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire of God's judgment. Revelation 14:11 "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." Hell is a Place of Separation from God 2 Thessalonians 1:9 They will be punished with eternal destruction, forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power. Hell Is a Place of Fire Matthew 3:12 "His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." Matthew 13:41–42 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will remove from his Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:50 ... throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Revelation 20:15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire. Hell Is for the Wicked Psalm 9:17 The wicked shall return to Sheol, all the nations that forget God. (ESV) The Wise Will Avoid Hell Proverbs 15:24 The way of life winds upward for the wise, that he may turn away from hell below. We Can Endeavor to Save Others from Hell Proverbs 23:14 Physical discipline may well save them from death. Jude 23 Rescue others by snatching them from the flames of judgment. Show mercy to still others, but do so with great caution, hating the sins that contaminate their lives. The Beast, False Prophet, Devil and Demons Will Be Thrown into Hell Matthew 25:41 "Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, 'Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons.' " Revelation 19:20 And the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who did mighty miracles on behalf of the beast—miracles that deceived all who had accepted the mark of the beast and who worshiped his statue. Both the beast and his false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. Revelation 20:10 ... and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. I'll post the Islamic description of Hell soon...I feel a food coma coming on thanks to Christmas lunch & dinner. I love my BBQ chicken & throwing a few shrimp on the barbie!
Hell in Islam... Qur'an 5:51 "O believers, do not hold Jews and Christians as your allies (friends). They are allies (friends) of one another; and anyone who makes them his friends is one of them." Qur'an 2:10 "As for those who deny Islam...they shall be the faggots for the Fire of Hell." Qur'an 37:19 "They will say, 'Woe to us! This is the Day of Doom.' Assemble the wrong-doers and their wives and the things they worshipped besides Allah, then lead them to the fierce flaming fires of Hell." Qur'an 37:63 "For We have truly made it as a trial to torment the disbelievers. Zaqqum is a horrible thorn tree that grows in Hell. The shoots of its fruit-stalks are like the heads of devils. Truly they [non-Muslims] will eat it and fill their bellies with it. On top of that they will be given a mixture made of boiling water to drink especially prepared. Then they shall be returned to the Blazing Fire." Qur'an 74:8 "The trumpet shall sound a day of anguish for disbelievers. Leave Me alone to deal with the creature whom I created bare and alone! Leave Me to deal with those I granted wealth and sons." Qur'an 96:15 "Let him beware! If he does not desist, We will seize him, smite his forehead, and drag him by the forelock, a lying, sinful forelock! Then, let him call upon his henchmen for help and summon his council of comrades. We will call on the angels of punishment to deal with him!" Qur'an 74:15 "They have offered stubborn opposition to Our Signs. Soon I will visit them with a mountain of calamities, imposing a fearful doom and a distressing punishment. For these men thought and plotted; so woe to them! They shall be cursed for their plots." Qur'an 74:26 "Soon will I fling them into the burning Hell Fire! And what will explain what Hell Fire is? It permits nothing to endure, and nothing does it spare! It darkens and changes the color of man, burning the skin! It shrivels and scorches men." Qur'an 74:31 "We have appointed nineteen angels to be the wardens of the Hell Fire. We made a stumbling-block for those who disbelieve and We have fixed their number as a trial for unbelievers in order that the People of the Book [Christians and Jews] may arrive with certainty, and that no doubts may be left for the people of the Book, those in whose hearts is a disease." Qur'an 75:20 "Some faces will be gloomy knowing that some great back-breaking calamity is about to be inflicted on them. Yes, when their soul comes up their throat and reaches their collarbone they will cry, 'Is there a magician or wizard who can save us?' But they will know that it is the hour of parting and one leg will be joined with another, agony heaped on agony, affliction combined with affliction." Qur'an 67:7 "We have prepared the doom of Hell and the penalty of torment in the most intense Blazing Fire. For those who reject their Lord is the punishment of Hell: Evil, it is such a wretched destination. When they are flung therein, they will hear the terrible drawing in of their breath and loud moaning even as the flame blazes forth, roaring with rage as it boils up, bursting with fury. Every time a fresh crowd is cast in, Hell's wardens will ask, 'Did no Warner come to you?'" Qur'an 69:27 "'I wish death had put an end to me. The stern command will say: 'Seize him, manacle him, chain him and cast him into the Blazing Fire of Hell. String him to a chain the length of which is seventy cubits. This is the fate of those who do not believe in the Lord Most Supreme or feed the poor. They have no friend today. They will have no food save filthy refuse which the hellish eat." Qur'an 70:10 "The Mujrim (disbeliever) desire will be to free himself from the Punishment by sacrificing his children as a ransom to save himself from the torment." Qur'an 70:12 "He would sacrifice his wife and his brother, and his kin who sheltered him, and all that is on earth to deliver himself from the Doom. By no means! For them it is the Fire of Hell! Plucking apart his body right to the skull! Taking away the head skin. Eager to roast; dragged by the head, hell shall claim all who flee." Qur'an 70:42 "So let them chat vainly and play about, with their idle disputes until they encounter that Day of Doom which they have been threatened! They will rise from their sepulchers in sudden haste as if they were rushing to a goal, their eyes lowered in dejection and disgrace, aghast, abasement stupefying them - ignominy shall overtake them! Such is the Day that they are threatened with!" Qur'an 80:33 "At length, when the deafening cry comes, that Day shall a man flee from his own brother, and from his mother and father, and he will abandon his wife and children. Each one of them will have enough concern to make him indifferent to others." Qur'an 68:42 "On the day when the great calamity of doom befalls them in earnest, and they are ordered to prostrate themselves, they will not. There shall be a severe affliction. Their eyes will be downcast, abasement stupefying them; ignominy will cover them. Seeing that they had been summoned beforehand to bow in adoration, while they were still whole and unhurt, they refused." Qur'an 68:44 "Then leave Me alone with such as reject this Message and call Our pronouncements a lie. Systematically by degrees, step by step, We shall punish them in ways they can not even imagine. [Hell is where Allah resides.]" Qur'an 73:11 "Leave Me alone to deal with the beliers (those who deny My Qur'an). Respite those who possess good things for a little while. Verily, with Us are heavy shackles (to bind), a raging fire (to burn them), food that chokes, and a torturous penalty of painful doom." Bukhari:V4B54N487 "The Prophet said, 'The Hell Fire is 69 times hotter than ordinary worldly fires.' So someone said, 'Allah's Apostle, wouldn't this ordinary fire have been sufficient to torture the unbelievers?'" Qur'an 72:15 "But the Qasitun (disbelievers) are the firewood of hell." Qur'an 7:41 "They shall have a bed on the floor of Hell and coverings of fire; this is how We reward them." Qur'an 104:4 "He will be sure to be thrown into that which breaks him into pieces, flung to the Consuming One. And what will explain to you that which Breaks him into Pieces, Consuming and Crushing? It is the fire kindled by Allah which leaps up over them penetrating the hearts of men." [Allah is in hell, kindling the fire.] Qur'an 79:1 "I swear by those who violently tear out (the souls), and drag them to destruction." Qur'an 87:12 "They will be flung in to burn in the great Fire (and be made to taste its burning, in which they will then neither die nor live?" Qur'an 88:1 "Has the narration reached you of the overwhelming (calamity)? Some faces (all disbelievers, Jews and Christians) that Day, will be humiliated, downcast, scorched by the burning fire, while they are made to drink from a boiling hot spring." Qur'an 88:6 "They shall have no food but a poisonous plant with bitter thorns, which will neither nourish nor satisfy hunger." Qur'an 90:19 "But those who reject Our Signs, Proofs, and Verses, they are the unhappy Companions of the Left Hand. Fire will be their awning, vaulting over them." Qur'an 66:6 "Believers! Save yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is Men and Stones, over which are angels stern (and) severe as wardens, who flinch not (from executing) the commands they receive from Allah, but do (precisely) what they are commanded." Qur'an 47:15 "Those who shall dwell forever in the Fire are given to drink boiling water that tears their bowels to pieces, and cutting their intestines to shreds." Bukhari:V8B76N548 "The Prophet said, 'Protect yourself from the Fire.' He turned his face aside as if he were looking at it and said, 'Protect yourself from the Fire,' and turned his face aside as if he were looking at it, and he said for the third time till we thought he was actually looking at it: 'Protect yourselves from the Fire.'" Bukhari:V8B76N547 "The Prophet said, 'All of you will be questioned by Allah on the Day of Doom. There will be no interpreter between you and Allah. And the Hell Fire will confront you. So, whoever among you can, save yourself from the Fire.'" Qur'an 21:98 "Verily you (disbelieving Infidels), and the gods that you worship besides Allah, are the fuel for Hell, faggots for the fire! Certainly you will enter it! Had their (idols) been (real) alihah (gods), they would have kept them out of Hell. Therein, sobbing will be your lot. Breathing with deep sighs, roaring. You will hear nothing but wailing and groaning." Qur'an 18:108 "And We shall present Hell that day for disbelievers to see, all spread out in plain view.... Verily We have prepared Hell for the hospitality of the Infidels; Hell is for the disbeliever's entertainment." Qur'an 77:29 "It will be said: Depart to the doom those who used to deny! Depart to a shadow of smoke (from the Hell Fire) ascending in three columns, which yields no relief or shelter and is of no use against the fierce blaze. Verily, (Hell) throws off sparks huge as castles as if they were yellow camels." Qur'an 78:21 "Truly Hell is as a place of ambush, a resort for the rebellious. A dwelling place for the disbelievers. They will abide there forever. Therein they taste neither coolness nor any drink save a boiling water and a fluid, dark, murky, intensely cold, paralyzing, a dirty wound discharge. It is a fitting reward for them." Qur'an 84:10 "Soon will He cry for perdition, invoking destruction, throwing them into the scorching fire. They shall enter the fire and be forced to taste its burning." Qur'an 85:1 "I swear by the Zodiacal Signs, woe to the makers of the pit of fire. Cursed were the people." Qur'an 85:5 "The Fire is supplied abundantly with fuel." Qur'an 101:8 "He whose balance is light will abide in a bottomless Pit. And what will make you know what it is? It is a fire blazing fiercely!" Qur'an 56:92 "But if he (the dying person), be of the denying (on the Day of Doom), erring (away from Islam), then for him is the entertainment with boiling water and roasting in hell fire. Verily. this is the absolute truth with certainty, so celebrate (Muhammad)." Qur'an 52:14 "'This,' it will be said, 'is the Fire, which you used to deny! Is this a magic fake? Burn therein, endure the heat; taste it. It's the same whether you bear it patiently, or not. This is My retaliation for what you did.'" Qur'an 55:41 "The sinners will be seized by their forelock and feet. This is the Hell the sinners called a lie. They will go round and round between its fierce fires and boiling water. Which of the favors of your Lord will you then deny?" Qur'an 40:18 "Warn them of the Day of (Doom) that is drawing near, when hearts will jump up and choke their throats, filling them with anguish. And they can neither return their hearts to their chests nor throw them out. No friend nor intercessor will the disbelievers have. (Allah) knows of (the tricks) that deceive with treachery, and all that the bosoms conceal." Qur'an 40:46 "In front of the Fire will they be brought and exposed morning and evening: And (the sentence will be): 'Cast the People of Pharaoh into the severest torment, the most awful doom!' Behold, they will argue noisily with each other while they wrangle in the Fire! The weak ones (who followed) will say to those who had been arrogant, 'We but followed you. Can you then take (on yourselves) from us some share of the Fire? The arrogant will say: 'We are all in this (Fire)! Truly, Allah has judged between slaves!'" Qur'an 40:9 "Those in the Fire will say to the guards and keepers of Hell: 'Pray to your Lord to lighten the torment for a day!' They will say: 'Did there not come to you your Messengers with Clear Signs?' They will say, 'Yes.' 'Then pray (as you like)! But the prayer of the disbelievers is futile (and will go unanswered)!' They will present their excuses, but they will (only) have the curse and the home of misery." Qur'an 76:4 "Those who deny will wear collars and chains, yokes (of servitude) tying their hands to their necks; they will be the inmates of Hell.... They will witness Our (many) exemplary punishments! Verily, your Lord is severe in retribution." Qur'an 21:37 "I will show you My Signs; then you will not ask Me to hasten them! They say: 'When will this (come to pass) if you are telling the truth?' If only the unbelievers knew (when) they will not be able to ward off the fire from their faces, nor from their backs! Nay, it will come to them all of a sudden and stupefy them, and they will be unable to repel it or avert it." Qur'an 4:55 "Sufficient for them is Hell and the Flaming Fire! Those [Jews] who disbelieve Our Revelations shall be cast into Hell. When their skin is burnt up and singed, We shall give them a new coat that they may go on tasting the agony of punishment." Want More?
Actually, no. Baptism is about the forgiveness of original sin. The life and death of Jesus is about the forgiveness of all of your sins throughout your life. However, you should probably save the sarcastic tone of your post for a different topic. Sarcasm and judgment when discussing religion is usually a bad idea.
So religious folks are allowed to pass information as fact but should be shielded from any type of commentary? Folks have their interpretation of the bible and so do I.
Thanks for the references but I was really just after a description in one's own words. So you say 'eternal separation from God'. Can you describe for me what God is and how you can be eternally separated from it?
God seemed a lot more active back in the day. A couple of thoughts.... It seems to me that most religious people believe in the religion they are born into. This is seen by concentrations of different religions in different parts of the world. A lot of the diversification now comes AND came from global migration. Before humans had the ability to access other parts of the world each "island" of the world had a different religion. I just do not see it as fair that your eternal glory or damnation is a matter of luck. So if Christianity is the religion and I am born and raised a Buddhist I am damned? It is my opinion that the belief we have in our religion is formed by our upbringing. It is a tradition of belief that has been passed down for generations and the belief is a matter of geography rather than divinity.
