Your earlier post showed that your logic is bad. This one says your math isn't any better! Frentz's number 2 yrs ago: YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG 01-02 -- 78 76 31.5 .458 .388 .695 2.30 5.20 7.40 1.1 .71 2.73 1.21 3.60 13.5 Fortson: 01-02 GSW 77 76 28.8 .428 .250 .795 3.80 7.90 11.70 1.6 .57 .22 2.08 3.30 11.2 La Frentz played 2/3 of the yr for Denver that yr. His number dropped with Dallas because he doesn't really fit with that system. They have 4 big guns who'd pull the trigger before he can cross midcourt. What they need is a defensive stopper/ rebounder. Not Frentz's strong suit. Fortson might get them some rebs but who is gonna stop the opp's 5?
ragingFire, Actually if you had watched the Mavs then you would know that my logic is on target. When the Mavs needed the one thing that LaFrentz was suppose to do well (3pt shooting) he disappeared. He could never stay out of foul trouble and has been a total non-factor for the Mavs in both the regular season and post season. Ask any Mav fan and they will tell you that they hate Reaf and that he is a complete waste of flesh and oxygen. If you think that statement is harsh you should hear how they talk about him on sports radio shows up hear in Dallas. What is the Mavs biggest weakness? Rebounding. What player on their team is without question one of the best reboundersin the entire league? Fortson. What player on the team is with out question one of the worst rebounding big men in the league? Reaf LaFrentz. And like you said in your post the Mavs have plenty of big guns so who do you think they need the most? Fortson of course. And according to your stats I would most definitely prefer what Fortson produced compared to what LaFrentz produced. 01 - 02 stats Minutes per game: Reaf 31.5 Danny 28.8 F/G% Reaf .458% Danny ..428% F/T % Reaf .695% Danny .795% Rebounds per game: Reaf 7.4 Danny 11.7 Blocks per game Reaf 2.73 Danny .22 Points per game Reaf 13.5 Danny 11.2 You look at those stats and think that Reafs are considerably better? You’re kidding right? In almost 3 fewer minutes a game Fortson out rebounded Reaf more than 4 boards a game! Plus Fortson can get the tough rebounds when the game is on the line, not Reaf. Fortson’s free throw percentage is a lot better than Reaf’s as well. There scoring average is virtually a toss up since Reaf played more minutes a game and only averaged about one basket a game more than Danny. There are only two things that Reaf does better than Fortson and that is block shots and shoot three pointers and I would prefer that my power forward not shoot 3 pointers especially if my team already had Dirk, Nash and Finely. I know that Reafs man to man defense is pathetic and by reputation so is Fortsons defense but at least with his rebounding teams will be limited to one shot on most trips down the floor unlike LaFrentz who will watch the opposing team take several shots at the basket during one possession with out getting a rebound.
just thinking about who is a better fit for the rockets-cato or lafrentz. lafrentz doesn't suck but he doesn't play with enough ferocity for his position. cato came out swinging last year- we needed that and will this year if we hope to compete in the west. it's not about stats, it's about balance. eddie can potentially do everything lafrentz can and hopefully more. let's keep cato.
Defense. What player on their team is without question one of the best reboundersin the entire league? Dirk. What player on the team is with out question one of the worst rebounding big men in the league? Reaf LaFrentz. that is not "without question". And like you said in your post the Mavs have plenty of big guns so who do you think they need the most? Fortson of course. sorry, logic doesn't follow. You could replace Fortson with Bradley, LaFrentz, Evan Eshmeyer, and it would make as about much sense. In almost 3 fewer minutes a game Fortson out rebounded Reaf more than 4 boards a game! yeah, in just 3 more minutes per game, Raef out-blocked Danny around 2.5 per game. Plus Fortson can get the tough rebounds when the game is on the line, not Reaf. Yeah, Danny has been getting a lot of game winning rebounds hasn't he? There are only two things that Reaf does better than Fortson and that is block shots and shoot three pointers and I would prefer that my power forward not shoot 3 pointers especially if my team already had Dirk, Nash and Finely. And there's only one thing Fortson can do better - rebound. You can call Raef a power forward, but he played center for the mavs. Fortson is incapable of doing that. I know that Reafs man to man defense is pathetic and by reputation so is Fortsons defense but at least with his rebounding teams will be limited to one shot on most trips down the floor unlike LaFrentz who will watch the opposing team take several shots at the basket during one possession with out getting a rebound. Fortson's d is worse than Raef, man or help, plus his height is another negative to putting him on the floor. He's most likely a cancer as well. I'm not a huge fan of Raef, but Fortson is more of a scrub than he is.
lets just put it this way, Dallas would of never done the antawn jamison deal if jiri wasnt included...
CriscoKidd, You are so off base with your comments It is almost hard to know where to start. However I will try. 1st. It does not matter what kind of defense a team plays if they continue to give teams 2nd, 3rd and 4th chances in one possession. Just watch last seasons WCF if you are not a believer. 2nd. Dirk is a good rebounder but certainly not one of the best in the NBA. His last two seasons where he averaged 9.9 rpg’s for 38 and 39 minutes a game are his best. Dirk is not a guy that you can rely on to grab a tough rebound when you are trying to close out a game, he has never been that kind of player. Fortson is a superior rebounder to Dirk, that is an indisputable fact. Fortson has been an outstanding rebounder everywhere he has ever played, he is easily a 12 rebound a night player at 30 minutes a game. This is a simple fact. 3rd. Reaf is one of the worst rebounding big men in the league and it is a fact. Reaf has never averaged 8 rebounds a game for a season. As a matter of fact his last 3 seasons he averaged 7.4, 7.4 and 4.8 rebounds a game while his career average is only 7.1 a game. That my friend is just pathetic for a power forward or a center. 4th. Evan Eshmeyer? Oh please! Name one thing that he has ever done other than occupy time on the dissabled list on the Mavericks. He plays no defense, no offense and does not rebound. Evan Eshmeyer? Damn dude he is barely even a warm body. And as for Bradley or LaFrentz, we both know that neither can get a damn rebound. Defense does not matter if the other teams get 2nd, 3rd and 4th chances because you can’t get a rebound. Who is the best rebounder on the Mavericks? That’s right its Danny Fortson, not Dirk and certainly not Reaf or Shawn or….Evan Eshmeyer. 5th. I think I was very clear when I said that Reaf was a better shot blocker than Danny Fortson. 6th. While Fortson rebounding is a lot better than Reaf his free throw shooting is substantially better and he does not get into foul trouble the way Reaf does. 7th. Reafs defense is non existent if he is not blocking shots. As I said before Danny’s defense is just as lethargic according to his reputation. The big difference IMO is that Danny is a lot more capable of limiting the opposing team to one shot than Reaf is. Either the shot goes in or Fortson sucks up the rebound. When Reaf is in the game he either blocks the shot or he will stand around while the other team gets an offensive rebound or he will foul the shooter and send him to the line. I know that we are not going to convince each other that either of us is right or wrong but the talk on the radio in Dallas after the trade was that Fortson was clearly the X factor in this trade if he can keep his head on straight. When Dallas traded for LaFrentz, Van Exel was suppose to be nothing more than a throw in to make the saleries work, Nick the quick was suppose to be a locker room cancer and a major head case. Nothing could have been further from the truth, Nick was a solid citizen and a great locker room guy while he was here in Dallas. The hope is that when Fortson arrives in Dallas, playing for a winning team that treats its players well will have the same effect on him that it did on Nick. If Danny Fortson plays up to his ability then he will be a very serious contributor for the Mavericks.
funny, I thought the same about your posts on this subject. 1st. It does not matter what kind of defense a team plays if they continue to give teams 2nd, 3rd and 4th chances in one possession. Just watch last seasons WCF if you are not a believer. true, but by the same token, it doesn't matter how good a rebounders they have on the court if they can't stop the other team and have to have Dirk/Fortson matchup on an elite big man. 2nd. Dirk is a good rebounder but certainly not one of the best in the NBA. His last two seasons where he averaged 9.9 rpg’s for 38 and 39 minutes a game are his best. Dirk is not a guy that you can rely on to grab a tough rebound when you are trying to close out a game, he has never been that kind of player. Fortson is a superior rebounder to Dirk, that is an indisputable fact. Fortson has been an outstanding rebounder everywhere he has ever played, he is easily a 12 rebound a night player at 30 minutes a game. This is a simple fact. Dirk, 7th in the league at rpg. bam. He's no Ben Wallace, but he's clearly one of the best. Fortson is a good rebounder as well, but that's all he brings to the table. 3rd. Reaf is one of the worst rebounding big men in the league and it is a fact. Reaf has never averaged 8 rebounds a game for a season. As a matter of fact his last 3 seasons he averaged 7.4, 7.4 and 4.8 rebounds a game while his career average is only 7.1 a game. That my friend is just pathetic for a power forward or a center. bump up his minutes per game from last year and he'll get around the same rpg at least(7.4). That would put him around the rung of 20th-30th best rpg in the league. Clearly not setting the world on fire, but not shabby either. 4th. Evan Eshmeyer? Oh please! Name one thing that he has ever done other than occupy time on the dissabled list on the Mavericks. He plays no defense, no offense and does not rebound. Evan Eshmeyer? Damn dude he is barely even a warm body. And as for Bradley or LaFrentz, we both know that neither can get a damn rebound. Defense does not matter if the other teams get 2nd, 3rd and 4th chances because you can’t get a rebound. Who is the best rebounder on the Mavericks? That’s right its Danny Fortson, not Dirk and certainly not Reaf or Shawn or….Evan Eshmeyer. Hey dude, you're the one that stated that they have plenty of "big guns", so of course they "need" Fortson. You aren't going to use logic, so I don't have to either I guess. Of course I don't think Evan should be starting, I know how much he sucks, so you don't have to give me this incredulous spiel of his suckitude. 5th. I think I was very clear when I said that Reaf was a better shot blocker than Danny Fortson. Yeah, but you glossed over it, while emphasizing the rpg differential. I thought I would reverse that since the bpg differential is just as impressive as the rpg differential. 6th. While Fortson rebounding is a lot better than Reaf his free throw shooting is substantially better and he does not get into foul trouble the way Reaf does. Unless it's at the end of games, I don't care too much about freethrows from a center unless its as bad as shaq used to be. Foul trouble is definitely an issue for Raef, always has been. 7th. Reafs defense is non existent if he is not blocking shots. As I said before Danny’s defense is just as lethargic according to his reputation. The big difference IMO is that Danny is a lot more capable of limiting the opposing team to one shot than Reaf is. Either the shot goes in or Fortson sucks up the rebound. When Reaf is in the game he either blocks the shot or he will stand around while the other team gets an offensive rebound or he will foul the shooter and send him to the line. And if Fortson is in the game as opposed to Raef, Dirk has to play center while shorty fortson and his ****ty d match up against the elite pfs of the west. Dirk and Raef may not hold their ground as much as they should, but at least they have the height to alter shots when they f up. Fortson ain't got that. I know that we are not going to convince each other that either of us is right or wrong but the talk on the radio in Dallas after the trade was that Fortson was clearly the X factor in this trade if he can keep his head on straight. that seems to be one of the causes of your beef with Raef. "the radio shows say this" "the radio callers call in to b**** about that". I dont care about what the radio shows in Dallas have to say about anything, just not relevant. Esp concerning most of the bandwagon fans there. When Dallas traded for LaFrentz, Van Exel was suppose to be nothing more than a throw in to make the saleries work, Nick the quick was suppose to be a locker room cancer and a major head case. Nothing could have been further from the truth, Nick was a solid citizen and a great locker room guy while he was here in Dallas. Again, if the bandwagon fans knew anything about the players involved in the trade, they would've known that NVE was ten times the player Raef was, with franchise level talent. NVE was a good off the court player in Denver when they had even the slightest aspirations of winning. When they didn't, that's when he threw his hissy fit because he wanted to win. Put him into a winning situation and of course it would follow that he'd mellow out. The hope is that when Fortson arrives in Dallas, playing for a winning team that treats its players well will have the same effect on him that it did on Nick. True, it's very well possible that could happen. Or he could rub people the wrong way just like he has every other place he's been. I don't think Fortson has the talent to be anything more than a "contributor" and he is best suited coming off the bench. Fortson isn't going to change the mavs, just be a decent rotation player.
