I read the post on their forum, Rocketman, and the argument they made is that the Rox won the 94 and 95 championships because Jordan wasn't playing. So if you go by the same arguement, then the 99 Spurs should have an asterick too, especially in a strike shortened season. Btw, if memory serves me, Jordan did play in 95.
Well, most people here (and that I've talked to) say it on their own, not in response to Spurs' fans. I agree that if they say that, it's a valid argument, but only then.
I don't believe David Robinson was better than Hakeem. Simply Hakeem won 2 titles as first option. Robinson won one title as second option. Having said that, I think the other twin tower, Tim Duncan, is as good as Hakeem and Duncan will in the end go down in history as the better player and the more accomplished player. <B>I was never impressed with Robinson's basketball skills but he was so freakishly athletic that at times he could be dominating no matter whom he faced.</B> Defensively, Robinson is the only player currently playing in the league who is strong enough to stop Shaq one on one. That is saying a lot considering the man is coming close to 40 years old. Alonzo Mourning, before his health problems, might have been the only other player who was able to contain Shaq to some degree. Hakeem had his days with Shaq but that was before Shaq was allowed to simply push and dislodge players out of the way. Now it takes someone with equal strength. <B>Robinson is no slouch but you have to give it to Hakeem because his all around skills were superior to Robinson also the 2 rings only prove Hakeem’s case.</B> I agree with the author of the thread who said Hakeem had a good supporting cast. Decent role players, Hakeem had, but as I remember it was Clyde who really was the difference maker. Clyde was everywhere on the floor. I loved it when he dribbled the ball up and he was so amazing in the open floor. The Glide was no slouch and in fact some people called him the other Jordan. Clyde was one of the most exciting players and his amazing ability to defy gravity simply made some of his offensive moves amazing. He really was the perfect compliment to Dream. So <B>anyone who thinks Dream won the title with a bunch of role players are belittling Clyde's role in the two championships.</B>
Oh come on...Jordan played at the very end of the season. To say Jordan played, that is true, but that isn't very telling of the fact that Jordan wasn't in basketball shape nor had time to adjust again to the other teammates and vice versa. To state Jordan's appearance in 95' only weakens your argument because your statement is a fallacy.
Clyde had no role in the first championship unless you think he let the Rockets beat his Blazers on purpose in the 1st round in 1994.
I never said I agreed with that. I said using the asterisk argument with Spurs' fans is only valid when they say that we only won because Jordan wasn't playing.
I posted a reply as well. I will check later to see how much I get flamed. I am laughing at some of the posts that I am reading. You guys are true homers. LMAO Rocket Fan always pulls out the only card he can when comparing the two, one playoff series in which Hakeem beat David with a superior team, in which Hakeem didn't spend that much time guarding David because the Rockets double teamed him. A) The playoff series is so important because that was the admiral's MVP season (arguably his best year as a pro) and he got DESTROYED. B) The winner got a trip to the Finals, so there was a lot at stake. C) The admiral had homecourt advantage but lost every game in San Antonio. D) Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't Rodman be in the hall of fame much like Drexler? Sean Elliott is not better than Robert Horry? Yeah, we really had a superior team with a SF playing PF for the first time, a 2nd yr point guard and a lack of depth overall cause our other SG was excluded from the playoffs. Our bench of Pete Chilcutt, Chucky Brown and the old Jones fellow was all that and then some. If our team was more talented, it was because we had a better center. E) I don't think the Spurs doubled Dream during the first 2 games, but I know they switched it up in Game 3 (like it really mattered). Anyway, the "best defensive big man ever" should not need a double team, and he definately shouldn't let someone go off on him for multiple 40 point games. As for the career blocked shots...ever hear of math RocketFan? Hakeem had been in the league for 5 years before David played a game, his career is 4 years longer than David's is going to be. Hakeem was 20 when he entered the NBA Dave was 24. Get the difference now? Yes, I have heard of math. In math, they have this small thing called an average. True, Hakeem played more seasons than Robinson, which equates to a higher total. However, playing more seasons has nothing to do with his career average been higher than Robinsons (3.09 to 2.99). Actually, playing more seasons should lead to a lower average....yet Dream's average is still higher. If you just take the first 14 seasons of Dreams career, his average is still higher (3.35 to 2.99). Hell, if you take Dream's last 14 seasons (which includes 4 seasons in which he didn't play over 61 games) his average is still the same as Robinsons. Yeah, I am starting to see how Robinson is a better defender. Not that blocks encompass all of defense. Hakeem played D much like Duncan he was a pretty good team defender but not much of a one on one defender. You are correct, blocks aren't the only defensive category. I find it odd that Dream is the only center in the top 10 in steals, yet Robinson is a better defender? What other defensive stat is there? Oh, defensive rebounding? Well, Dream has the edge there as well. So Dream has the edge on Robinson in EVERY defensive category (going by totals or averages...take your pick), yet Robinson is better? I pray that your occupation does not deal with analyzing data........ Your statement that Dream plays defense like Duncan is really ridiculous, considering Duncan never averaged over 1 steal a game. It's not so much that I disagree that Hakeem was the better defender, it' that RocketFan has weak points backing up their argument. I have dismantled all of your points. Give me some more lame excuses so I can rip them to shreds as well.
Uh, didn't we trade for Clyde in Feb of '95? Otis Thorpe was the difference maker in '94, leaning on Oakley.
well in that case...that is a valid argument...that is stupid that Spurs fans are using the Jordan argument..cause even if Jordan did play the whole season...Hakeem was simply unstoppable. again...my bad
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Um, I uh (choking)... hahahahahahahahahahahahaha! I... I... hahahaha... I'll get a point across in a minute... hahahaha... I swear... hahahahahahahahaha! (wheeze). Uh, okay. First of all, how is Robinson supposed to win a championship with a Rockets supporting cast that can't create shots for themselves, ala Sean Elliot? They were a bunch of three-point shooters! You can't dump it in to Robinson 3 out of 4 times down the floor and expect to win anything! Oh okay, he was so good that he didn't need a go-to move. Alright. Hakeem's post game was so good that anything he decided to pull out of his ass at anytime, whether he'd done it before or not, had the effectiveness of a go-to move. I mean, on offense I could see how your average joe could just be ignorant and think Robinson's game even began to touch Hakeem's. I can see it. But defense? Better than Russell, Wilt, Hakeem, Cowens? They were all easily better defensive players than Robinson, and you could make arguments for many others. You just gotta be freakin' record-setting idiotic to think Robinson was the best defensive big man ever. I guaran-freaking-tee you that this guy has never seen a clip of Bill Russell that was longer than 5 seconds. Yeah, he's one to talk about insane athleticism. Can Robinson grab a streetlamp and extend his body horizontally, in a straight line like Wilt? Can Robinson win as many high-school track events as he was allowed to enter, including the 100 meters, like Wilt? Can Robinson outjump "Air" Jordan like Wilt? Nope. Get a freakin' clue. There are other teams in the NBA besides the Spurs, smart guy.
Do they have like libraries, internet and tv's yet in that dump ass city of San Antonio? Maybe its just lack of information that makes the Spers fans so stupid.
Morons they be For titanic matchups like that, you don't double team anyways, but if Robinson was so great on D, why would they even need a double team?
It's ironic that a Spurs fan would bring up Jordan's abcense to explain the Rocket's titles when they only won a title because of Jerry Krause breaking up the Bulls.
How the hell did Hakeem average 6 assists per game in the 95 WCF if he was never doubled? Spurs fans will say ANYTHING to avoid admitting the obvious which every NBA fan saw that year: Robinson was destroyed by Hakeem. It was embarassingly one-sided. It just pisses them off that Hakeem was basically like a combination of Robinson's defense and Duncan's offense. They have the twin Flowers who both SUCK in the clutch and we had the real deal, a man who stepped up in the playoffs and actually could hit a FT. Saying Robinson is better than Hakeem is akin to a Rockets fan saying that Yao Ming > Tim Duncan.
CAREER AVERAGES ...............G GS MPG.. FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG.. APG SPG BPG TO.. PF.. PPG Hakeem 145 140 39.6 .528 .222 .719 3.20 7.90 11.20 3.2 1.69 3.26 2.92 3.90 25.9 David R. 119 119 34.6 .477 .100 .708 3.00 7.70 10.70 2.3 1.23 2.58 2.34 3.40 18.3 Can you say playoffs, anyone? When the going gets tough, Hakeem steps up, and Robinsoft runs away.
I think we all fell for it. That guy posted and never came back.... We kept arguing our cause and I think this is getting stupid. I have more than enough reasons to believe that someone coming into CC.net to post something like this is just trying to be an *** and creating trouble. There's NO comparison between the two, especially during the playoffs. To say that SA can't double Dream? First of all, DR prolly thought he could defend him being MVP and all... and after the series went 2-0 and into Houston they finally figured out how much better Dream was. Besides, how hard was it to double Dream off Charles Jones?? You can't seriously tell me that he'll burn you throughout the series... or even score in double figures so that doubling dream was improbable. Looking through stats from games 3 and 4 which the Spurs won, it was all supporting cast... Dream STILL outplayed DR but it's the like of Del Negro/ Avery Johnson that got the Spurs back into the series. There's a reason why we don't need to double team DR.... the Rockets didn't NEED to?!?! With that said. I propose that we just stop this thread asap.. it's not like the thread starter's gonna come back to defend his argument again anyways
well he did.. but points not really valid. Try spending a couple seasons wearing goggles... Horace Grant will come up and tell you how stupid it feels to have the opponents mess with you by trying to alter its position. This isn't about serving the country etc etc.. besides.. blocks steals rebounds etc... just look at the AVERAGES.. so lost time proves nothing
DR better defender??!? For a SA fan you don't get to watch many games do you? I've followed both teams almost game by game throughout those years. People don't even drive the lane much against Houston those years!! Dream's presence alters shots that DR could never do. I could simply use that series and say Hakeem defended DR better than DR defended Dream... but they you'd argue that defending DR really isn't that hard... but then again... that just proves more value for Hakeem. What it came down to is this: Our supporting cast. Horry/ Smith/ Elie/ etc.... none of them would ever succeed if they don't have someone creating their shots FOR them. Horry and all his heroics.... when has he created that shot for himself?... oh wait... it has to be tossed out to him to shoot. The Rockets championship teams are great at catching and shooting.. and it ALL begins with Dream. Great players MAKES his teammates the most they can be. For example... how did Thorpe do once he left Houston? Elie wasn't doing as much either until Duncan helped resurrect his situation. Horry went to Phoenix.. didn't do much until he became a Laker and Shaq created shots for him. Cassell was a rookie coming into 93-94. He wasn't as great creating a shot then. His game winning 3 pointer against the Knicks? Who created that shot for him? I was just watching tapes of that SA/ Hou series just now... funny how i still have em in such nice condition. The offense doesn't even go through DR >50% of the time. Avery Johnson/ Sean Elliot have their share of shot creation... then again, Dream had quite a night altering THEIR shots too?!? How's DR's help defense?... I just don't see his softness give him ANY advantage to defend anyone else other than his own... and he can't even do that apparently. Defense starts with the footwork... can ANYONE name ANY CENTER with better footwork than Dream? I can't even picture most guards with the kind of footwork Hakeem applied
