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A Song of Ice and Fire Discussion (warning: possible spoilers)

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by crash5179, Apr 6, 2012.

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  1. Phillyrocket

    Phillyrocket Member

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    Am I the only one who thinks it's Ashara Dayne? Heck didn't Ned even say it in season one on HBO?

    Not sure where this Rhaegar/Lyanna stuff is coming from.....
     
    #21 Phillyrocket, Apr 9, 2012
  2. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    Ned did give King Robert a name but he did not say that she was Jon's mother. Ned refused to verify her as Jon's mother.

    I first heard the rumor of Rheagar and Lyanna in the GRRM interview although they did not say the specifics of the rumor in the interview. I did let my curiostiy get the best of me and do some serching around the web to find out what the rumor was though.

    It makes a lot of sense if you take all of the facts into account. Why would Rheagar, an otherwise very wise and intellegent man who did not like war, kidnap Lyanna knowing that would surely start a war?

    There was obviously something between Rheagar and Lyanna at the turnament at Harrenhal.

    And what was it that Lyanna made Ned promise to her as she was dying?
     
    #22 crash5179, Apr 9, 2012
  3. Xerobull

    Xerobull You son of a b!tch! I'm in!
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    The big hole in this is Ned's honor.
     
    #23 Xerobull, Apr 9, 2012
  4. Phillyrocket

    Phillyrocket Member

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    :confused: Are you saying that Ned is so honorable that he didn't cheat on Catelyn and is instead just pretending to protect his nephew instead of son Jon?
     
    #24 Phillyrocket, Apr 9, 2012
  5. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    One small thing . . .

    IF Jon is the son of a Rheagar and Lyanna . . .
    That would put him in a position to take the IRON THRONE
    [which is probably why he did not tell Robert]
    but
    that said. . . Why let Jon take the Black . . .
    basically renouncing the throne.
    I just don't know why Ned would do that . . . unless he figured
    that if he took the black . . then told him . . . Robert would no longer care?
    Maybe?

    Rocket River
     
    #25 Rocket River, Apr 9, 2012
  6. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    Yes basically. If true then Jon is a Targaryen as well as a Stark. King Robert was actively trying to Kill all Targaryens regardless of how innocent they were. Remember how Ned defended Dannary's to Robert in season 1.
     
    #26 crash5179, Apr 9, 2012
  7. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    I don't think Ned ever intended for Jon to be King. Plus Jon is still a b*stard regardless if Rheagar and Lyanna are his parents so his claim would be very weak at best. Plus he would have been called a traitor by King Robert and beheaded. A war between Ned and Robert would have followed. If true I think Ned must have promised Lyanna to keep Jon safe and serving the Nights Watch is honorable and a lot safer than Jon trying to take the iron thrown from Robert Baratheon.
     
    #27 crash5179, Apr 9, 2012
  8. Xerobull

    Xerobull You son of a b!tch! I'm in!
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    An answer to the past few questions regarding R+L= J. All books read spoilers.

    as I hinted at earlier, targaryens had a history of polygamy. If Lyanna married Rhaegar as his second wife, Jon would be a legit heir.

    Regarding Jon joining the nights watch- If the above is true or even if Jon is a b*stard, as Crash stated, Ned had no designs on the throne via Jon. In fact, the Nights Watch was the safest place to hide a targ as we see with maester Aemon.

    At any rate, regarding Jon's vows, let's look at the NW words:

    "Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all nights to come. "

    Jon was neatly released from his vows at the end of book 5.
     
    #28 Xerobull, Apr 9, 2012
  9. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    I had not thought of that! It makes perfect sense! Certainly it can't be that easy can it? Honor saved, vows fullfilled and now he is ready to complete his destiny. He would have a better claim than Dannerys.
     
    #29 crash5179, Apr 9, 2012
  10. Xerobull

    Xerobull You son of a b!tch! I'm in!
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    It's certainly very neat. :grin:

    Anyway, it all fits into my master theory that I formulated years ago:

    grrm has stated that the ending to the series will be bittersweet. I believe that Jon and Dany will meet and fall in love and at least intend to marry, old school inbreeding targ style. one of the will die after they are both vindicated.

    Also, I believe that tyrion will die after finding out that he too is a targ. His mother and the mad king, his father.

    This is not before the three of them make the three heads of the dragon to defeat the Others at the trident. They will each ride a dragon. And tyrion already showed his proficiency in custom saddle design.

    Also, JS= Azor Ahai reborn and Tyrion as the prince who was promised.

    Lastly, Another interesting tidbit- Jon is LCC 998. I think #1000 will bungle the Walls protective spells somehow and release The Others.
     
    #30 Xerobull, Apr 9, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  11. myco

    myco Member

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    Well, it depends whether you consider Cat dead
     
    #31 myco, Apr 10, 2012
  12. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos Houston only fan
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    well you obviously know the answer to that if you've read the 5th book
     
    #32 LosPollosHermanos, Apr 10, 2012
  13. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Member
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    Very interesting. That is the kind of stuff it's fun to speculate about, and one of the reasons the series is so great.
     
    #33 FranchiseBlade, Apr 10, 2012
  14. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Member
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    Interesting thought about Bran. I'm really intrigued.
     
    #34 FranchiseBlade, Apr 10, 2012
  15. Xerobull

    Xerobull You son of a b!tch! I'm in!
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    Yeah...my theory all seems kind of fairy tale at the end, but it is a fantasy series, after all. The whole 7 kingdoms mess is just a distraction from the real issue, which is the Others.
     
    #35 Xerobull, Apr 10, 2012
  16. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    Is the series really about Varys and Littlefinger?
     
    #36 crash5179, Apr 10, 2012
  17. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    I hope so
    but
    I think it is mainly about the Stark kids
    They are becoming a powerful family
    Sansa - Learning from the Master of Coin
    Arya - Learning from the Master Assassins
    Jon - had the wall but we will see
    Bran - Master Green Seerer

    Ricken - unknown at this point
    Rob - dead - like forreal dead

    Rocket River
     
    #37 Rocket River, Apr 11, 2012
  18. Xerobull

    Xerobull You son of a b!tch! I'm in!
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    Starks:

    Sansa isn't a 'real' Stark; her wolf was killed
     
    #38 Xerobull, Apr 11, 2012
  19. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    That was just mean and totally insensitive! :p
     
    #39 crash5179, Apr 11, 2012
  20. myco

    myco Member

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    Starks.
    At one point I think Martin planned on titling the last book "A Time for Wolves."
     
    #40 myco, Apr 11, 2012
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