No, re-read what I replied to. Though I will say, football has a long, storied and ongoing history of PED use, and there's much, much less outcry over that than there is over baseball (and cycling, if you're european )
You know what's more of a travesty? That people failed to realize this when they introduced the All-Century team back in 1999. They voted 2 1st Basemen and, while no one should argue Gehrig's inclusion, they voted in McGwire instead of, say, Jeff Bagwell. There is no way McGwire was a better 1st Baseman than Jeff Bagwell.
That's simply not true (re: McGwire). I'm not a big fan of McGwire's, but he finished with a higher career OBP than Tony Gwynn, and currently has the 9th highest SLG of all-time. His home-run rate is what made him an outstanding player because it affected all the other facets of his game. You simply can't discount it and call him an average player otherwise. Of course all of this neglects the steroid elephant, but it's such a ridiculous comment I had to jump in.
Check out this thread: http://bbs.clutchfans.com/showthread.php?p=4653052#post4653052 That is my biggest problem with Big Mac discounting steroids. I certainly understand putting him in, because his totals are great, but I actually think Bags has a better case.
McGwire hit 583 HRs (see ) and should be a lock, if not for the PED use. Most of the players not in the HoF with more than 500 career HRs are either still active or have a steroid cloud over them (Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, Rafael Palmeiro).
i think he meant that foxx was vastly overlooked relative to great hitters of his generation. and that bagwell is similar to that. is that right, buck?
McGwire's home run rate made him a one-trick pony. He stuck out about as often as he hit the ball. His entire talent base revolved around offense, yet he only won 3 Silver Slugger awards throughout his career. In the field he only managed to win a total of 1 Gold Glove. In comparison Tony Gwynn has 7 Silver Slugger awards and 5 Gold Gloves. He is outstanding. Ken Griffey Jr. has 7 Silver Slugger awards and 10 Gold Gloves. He is outstanding. Outstanding home run hitter? Absolutely. Outstanding player? Ridiculous indeed.
I note that you use the word "still". Why should 500-being-a-lock change? Only 25 players have ever done it.
I know, its still a rare feet. You can argue about the things BigMac didn't do,500 hrs is still pretty awesome
600 home runs are very valuable. 1300 walks are very valuable. A .588 SLG% is very valuable. Despite all of those hits and and silver sluggers for Gwynn, McGwire got on base more often than Gwynn and dwarfed him in SLG%. You can have your professional hitters, I'll take the guy that's going to help me score more runs.
10 have done it in the last decade or so. That is double the amount of players getting 3,000 hits/ 300 wins in that same period. 600HRs is looking more like what was 500HRs.
LOL. I love the steroid homers. I didn't know steroids last 5+ years? That's news to me. Don't hate, 26 soon to be 27.
The steroids were supposedly used during the time frame of 2001-2003 right? It's now 2008. Five years since he has taken performance enhancement drugs. The thread was made because of his performance yesterday. So I don't understand the "cheater" reference. 26 and soon to be 27 means that the Yanks have 26 WS's and are going to have 27 by the end of the year.
thanks. i'm with you. arod is a great, great player with or without steroids...and whether i like him, personally (or the yankees for that matter) or not. i'd say the same is true of barry bonds, as well.
No problem. I'm estimating that 95% of the people who aren't San Fran fans hate Barry Bonds with a passion. True but sad statement.
