This wasn't directed at me, but I'd like to make some points on this. The seperation that any of these organizations make probably isn't fair - I can see why you feel that way - but they are more a byproduct than anything else. You seem to believe that these organizations exist for other races, but aren't allowed for whites. I offer that they do. In fact, its because they do that non-white organizations ever came into existence. In the past, sororities were all white anyway; it was simply accepted that blacks weren't allowed. What else would they do, other than have to form their own sororities? Why can there be an African American channel on TV? Because blacks were seldom allowed on television before. Why only African American magazines? Because it was the only way they or their views could get on the newsstand. They exist because of past mistakes. You act as though the oppression and descrimination was never heavily unbalanced. Racism, whatever you may think of its frequency today, was a big part of this country's history. And it was reflected in its media and organizations. They didn't come into being because it was an attempt to discriminate whites - they came into existence to break through the discrimination that blocked them in the past. That's what happens between a majority and a minority. Maybe it doesn't have the same kind of gap today; but it is a fact of our history. Its probably less fair today, and maybe more harmful, I can see that view. But you should take a long hard look at why they ever had to exist in the first place.
Actually it's becoming more and more clear to me that you don't know anything about racism. You think black racism fuels white racism... I mean what do you say to that? That's friggin preposterous. I'll use my wonderous A&M example because it's just so nifty. You ask the incredibly um... question, why do blacks get special treatment. Well you see at A&M, the very classy University that published a racist picture recently, there are 44,000 students enrolled. 82% of those students are white. EIGHTY TWO PERCENT. 3% of students are black. Apparently many southern colleges have similar enrollment according to the Chronicle at least. At UT, 61% of students are white and 3% are black. According to the last Census 12.9% of all Americans consider themselves black or African-American. As you can see, the two largest schools in the state have more than 4 times fewer blacks in their student population than they appear in the general population. Is that what you would call getting better than equal? It doesn't take much of an imagination to think of what that does to the distribution of wealth and power along racial lines. Better than equal my ass. Germans aren't a race, they're people of a nationality. If Jews hate Germans because they're white then that's racism. If you were a Holocaust survivor you might hate Germans too. Next... I'm not even going to bother with commenting on what blacks in America are going through because I'm not black but you go right ahead. I will say though that you don't seem to have the faintest clue about how the past and aspects of the present are still negatively impacting the black community. Nowhere here have I justified any hate. What I did say is that the scope of black hate is so small and completely harmless to the position of whites in our society that it's a cop out and a complete waste of time to seriously include it into a discussion on white racism. It would be about as stupid to talk about how feminists are committing reverse discrimination towards men. I mean where are the menists? Where is the National Organization for Men? I demand NOM membership now!
You didn't answer my question. Why is it unfair for the Citadel to exclude women? Why can't women go do their own Citadel? There are zero public universities that exclude based on sex. Every gender based college in the country is private and the overwhelming majority of them are female. In fact I saw a thing on Real Sports about this very topic and I think the ratio is 52 to 1, female to male. That's going to be on our agenda for the first NOM meeting. Men unite!!!!
Rokkit- I am glad you addressed this and pointed it out. I always welcome discussion. You're right about the history behing such organizations. They were created to give blacks an outlet when they had none. They were given to help them because other groups wouldn't. I appreciate their intent and I am glad they exist even today. It is not their intent or history I have a problem with. It's the duality of it all. I do not think the intent was to discriminate whites. I do not even think that today the aim is truly to discriminate against whites. My point is very simple. They can have an only black group and it's acceptable. We cannot have an only white group and have it be acceptable. We cannot have a scholarship that only white people can apply to, but one that only black people can apply to can exist. As far as my view on racism today, I don't know that I always know what it is, so I certainly can't expect anyone on here to know. Sometimes, I think it's getting better. Then I read some posts here and I think it's getting worse (j/k) . I do think there are moves in both races against the other for many reasons. Frankly, I don't know what to do or think about it all. I don't know that anything can be done. I was going to say more, but I don't want to get myself into more trouble!
Haha... you have this one all white group that's more important than most any group in the country. It's called the US Senate. Well, it's got two minorities I think but you can't beat 98 to 2.
I've always been for integration of women into things. I think it's totally fair for there to be an all male university (if you want more, go start some). As far as your example goes, do you know how many people go to my school and what the break down is for race? Trust me, black people are going to college. In my high school as well, there was a more than 12% black population. You cannot look at only the two largest schools. Look at my school. Look at TSU. Look at Prairie View A&M. The two biggest schools are not necessarily the best two schools (although it could be argued). How is hating a nationality different from hating a race? And why don't you think it's as bad? Like I said, hate is hate. Why can you not agree to that? You're right. I'm not black and I do not know. I am also not saying they have not had a difficult time either. I *do* see how the past and present are affecting blacks. It's hard not to see. But you also need to realize it's getting better. I'm not arguing about it because you and I both already know about it (even though you think I don't). I am arguing what I think and see and feel sometimes. It's unpopular (although I know some people who feel similarly what I do, but won't talk about it because people like you insult us and think we're bad). It's not something people want to see. Do I think blacks are racist to whites. Of course. I would think anyone is a fool who doesn't believe this happens. Do I think whites are racist to blacks. Of course. They have been since the beginning of American history, so why would things change. Do I think these racisms fuel each other? Yes. Does it mean I blame one? Both are wrong. Hate is wrong. Discrimination is wrong. Am I wrong to feel that I do not owe anything to black people? You probably think so. I do not think white people as a whole owe anything, except equality and respect, and I'm sorry if this upsets you. I am very sorry for the history black people have gone through. I am sorry the struggle has been hard. I am sorry that a century after slavery ended not all blacks have or see that they have opportunities. I do think they do not always have the same oppotunities. I think things are getting better but I don't know that they'll ever be perfect. I don't think it can be. Your Senate comment actually made me smile. Thanks, I needed it! And those two members are 2% of the Senate. Did you know women make up 52% of the population but only hold about 12%-18% of Congress. Women are more underrepresented than minorities are and we're the majority. And if the Senate did have 12% blacks and they all agreed on one issue, they still wouldn't win without white or other minority support. I do appreciate you discussing this rather nicely with me. I don't know that we got anywhere, but it's easier to me than yelling online and insulting each other. I need to go to bed. Have a nice evening!
It is certainly possible to utter a racist statement, and hold a racists opinion, without having an overarching worldview that is consciously dominated by racism. The statement from that guy was racist. He would rule out a woman because she was black. No doubt about it. Does that mean he is a racist in ALL facets of his life? No. If he is hiring someone for a job he could give equal opportunity to all races. He could play ball and be friends with blacks. However, I find these more subtle instances of racism much more disconcerting that an outright KKK member spewing his crap. Everyone disregards the idiot in the white sheet. No one thinks about these kinds of racists utterances, which should be curbed, as they ARE racist and do provide an undercurrent of judgement based on race that should not exist. Princess saying Jews have big noses, and blacks have big butts is racist. Is she a racist? I don't know. Is there a threshold where you cross over from being someone who makes statements or takes actions they don't realize are racist to someone who uses race as a criteria for any decision that they make (where applicable)? I don't know that either. I wonder if this guy was asked 'why' he didn't like black women. I bet he could not articulate it, or if he could he didn't provide specifics. Why? Exactly because the racism inherent in seeing people of one skin color as all the same. They aren't, so the only thing he possibly could believe are the same type of 'stereotypes' that Princess makes... Whether you drop this clown as a friend is up to you. But ridicule is definitely appropriate. One other thing I'd like to address is the whole black racist thing. Anyone can be a racist, but its important to note that racism is a cycle. Blacks/Hispanics, if brought up in a society that says whites are better, could certainly come to desire (most likely subconsciously) white women. Doesn't mean they don't like hispanics or blacks necessarily. Only that white racism has an insidious dehumanizing effect on minorities aside from the blatant and overt symptoms we all recognize. It tells them 'we are less than.' As for Asian women, many studies suggest that Westerners have a particular thing for them as a result of stereotypes like their submissiveness (picture geisha 'girls'), the allure of the 'mysterious Eastern' culture, and the abnormally old age at which the West finds sex acceptable (picture Catholic school girl outfit) compared to eastern cultures....
AAAHHHHH, whats the big deal? I will tell you LOTS of brothas I know or occasionally play ball with are NOT attracted to white "bieyatches" AT ALL, they just aren't. Whats the big deal? No your friend isn't racist, he just don't lke dark meat. Thats ok. BTW, I'm attracted to ALL of them! Even big sloppy bootie down home dirty south ladies! YEAH!
I just wanted to point out that this line made me laugh much more than DaDakota's joke! Anybody else see the bitterness in this line? Like the Aesop fable "The fox and the grapes", the fox says "Oh well, they were probably bitter anyway."
Rokit said: Y'know, I saw this thread and thought: well this should be pretty cut and dried. Nothing too bad there. I liked your language, but I would have thought the answer would be clearly yes. The tyra banks picture says it all. However, having read most of the thread I guess I would perhaps say it was an unintentionally racist comment by a person who isn't that racist. This particular quote IMHO showed that he is still somewhat racist. Or maybe he hasn't seen the tyra banks picture. I don't believe that racism is an all or nothing phenomenon. Once we have evolved to the point that this is the most racist thing going on we'll be in pretty good shape.
PRINCESS, HANG IN THERE! Princess as an old lefty (at least on this bbs) I obviously disagree with many of your positions. However, you do seem like your still forming your own political positions, probably starting from what you heard at home. This always occurs at your age, if you are a thinking person. You seem like your're open minded and may find that your opinions change. Try taking some of the liberal professors at U of H. There are some. Harold Rodgers, political science, Tatcho Mindiola, Mexican American Studies, Harry Walsh, Russian, several of the sociology professors, etc. Ask around, and take some of the most leftist professors. It might be your only chance to be exposed to leftist thinking, unless you go out of your way later to find it. Contrary to popular bumpersticker thinking in Houston, you are rarely exposed to it in the mainstream media. Due to some of the excessive rudeness on this board I hope you don't stop exploring the issues. BTW, I composed this before noticing Mrs JB's post and obviously had somewhat the same thought.
Lambda Lambda Lambda (fraternity) let in all the nerds (black, white and gay) and things worked out O.K. for them.
A few tidbits: Black sororities/fraternities were not started because they could not get into the white ones...they were started because blacks were not allowed in most universities. They were forced into all black schools. I have seen a few non-blacks in the various black houses. I guess if some people really want it and are friends with the members anyway they get in. There are Jewish houses. There are business and math houses. Fraternities/sororities are exclusive by nature. I really do not even understand why this was brought up. Damn "them" for not letting whites in. One time I wasn't picked for a basketball team (which had already picked my best friend) because the captain didn't want any white people on his team. I am still bitter to this day...it ruined my chance of becoming a Rocket. It is all that guy's fault.
We had hispanics, whites and blacks in Sigma Chi when I was a member. I think the only criteria we had was whether you fit in with the group of guys we had in the frat. DaDakota
I think any "white" fraternity on my campus (Arkansas State University) would let "non-whites" join except for the infamous Kappa Alphas. They always have rebel flags flying and hanging on their vehicles and last year they made a homecoming banner depicting a panther, which happened to be black, hanging by its neck from a tree and in the background they had a rebel flag painted in. They said it was because we were playing a team nicknamed the panthers. I don't know about that one...
Yes, the KAs suck. My roommate first semester at SWT was pledging KA. They came over to our room once, and wrote, "I'm a guilty n*****" on my cut-out of the Houston Chronicle headline the day OJ was aquitted. I went to one of their parties once, and I swear every word out of their mouth was that word.
I'd say its racist, but not necessarily that big of an evil. I'd say his racist comment is of the same evil as discriminating against a woman because she's large. Being shallow for what ever reason is shallow. I admit it I'm shallow.
