But it is. If you look deeply at the painting, you can see the whole cosmos. The painting would not exist without you, the sun, the rain, the laws of physics, the people who made the paint and canvas, and the food that they ate, etc. Without the entire cosmos, the painting would not exist. Everything is really a part of you the way your limb is.
This is what I meant when I said people were not showing respect when they said, "Whatever you believe is fine." As a believer in God, I feel insulted when people say, "It doesn't matter if God exists or not. The important thing is for you to believe in something that makes you feel warm and loved." I don't need to believe in something that doesn't exist to feel warm and loved. If I am believing in something that doesn't exist, than I am WRONG. And somebody should try to convince me that I am wrong so I won't waste my time believing in something wrong.
The point being, as my grandfather would say, "if you don't believe in something, you'll fall for anything".
I really don't see how that is an insult to you but as long as you believe that is an insult I guess it is one. I do think you are wrong but I'm not gonna try to convince you of that. Really though, until religious people find tangible evidence of their beliefs then there is no point in trying to convince non-religious people that they are wrong. I still think that you can't choose what you believe in anyway. You can choose to go to church or not. You can choose to pray or not. But true faith is something that you either have or you don't. Not that you can't gain faith or lose faith later on but I don't think you can choose to gain or lose it without deluding yourself into thinking that you have.
I think it is a question of definitions. If by "being a part of" you mean to say that things have some sort of relationship with one another, then sure, I'll grant you that much. But I think that is a much more vague idea than what I had in mind. Perhaps thinking about the degree and direction of dependency gets to the heart of the issue. Things that are a part of me effect me as a whole and depend on me entirely. For example, my arm, if someone cuts it off I'll notice in a hurry. If I die, my arm dies too. That's not the case with something I create. Something could happen to a painting without my ever being aware. And if I die, it won't quickly deteriorate. Clearly there is a difference and I think it's an important one when we are looking at the relationship between God and His creation. Yes, we would not exist if it were not for the existance of quite a number of things (laws of gravity, our parents, food and water, and God above all). And similarly to a body part, if God were somehow to cease to exist, so would we.) But unlike a body part, if we cease to exist He would be no less than He is now. He wouldn't have to replace us or compensate for our loss with a limp.
If someone told my wife I probably didn't love her and I was cheating her. But that is not really important. As long as she thought that I loved her and felt good about it, that's good enough. I think that would be an insult to my wife. Don't you think?
Not going to do much here for the moment, but... Surprised I've not seen one comment on NASA's proof of the "Big Bang" theory. Why not? Is it startling to see that some patterns do fit?
If it was 'startling' you woulda got a response. It's much ado about nothing though, so you didn't. Didn't get much play in the papers either so I don't really see why you're surprised. Do you watch a lot of Jack Van Impe Presents? You do know that's paid programming, right?
Sorry, didn't see it that way MM. The only reason Mel Gibson decided to be a priest again was because his son didn't die(I guess he thought his praying at the end prevented it?). And all the sudden he regained his faith. What development went on? Throughout the movie they were just trying to figure out what was going on, then they tried to hide from the invasion of the 'primative green apes from outer space' and after that the movie was over. I really don't see where you got Gibson developing back into a man of faith throughout the movie...except at the end. Also...did you see the WHOLE movie? I'm just wondering because, in your post you asked me "how do you know what hurts aliens???" and in the movie it was clear that water was suppose to hurt them. Do you remember that? It was quite significant. If you understand life's dependancy on water then the whole movie and its 'ape invasion' seems very silly. I can suspend reality in some movies because it is required...The Matrix, Little Nicky, Scary Movie, LOTR. But this movie was suppose to be set in a realistic time with realistic rules, but the movie makers decided to break these rules when it started to involve the aliens...thats why I thought it sucked.
1. no...he didn't just come to faith again because his son didn't die...there were seemingly random events in his life which all conspired at once to reach an ultimate conclusion...the little girl's issue with water...the baseball bat on the wall...the words of his wife at her death, what he previously called random synapses firing in her brain...his son's asthma, which was always a problem before, but which saved his life from the poison which couldn't fill his lungs. these were all normal occurences...just part of the mundane before the event. it's not merely that his son lived and so he went back to his faith. you're missing it. it's that the mundane became miraculous. 2. character development...main points...his little talk with his brother about believing that someone is there to watch over you or not...he ultimately said he didn't believe that anymore...flashbacks to his wife's death....his screams at his family at the dinner table where he said, "we will not pray..not in my house!" this from an ex-minister. and then, ultimately...living through the night...and watching the events culminate before him. to him it was a miracle...that's been the basis of faith for many. 3. i was asking...if aliens truly exist...how do you know what hurts them? have you met them? have you asked? you're asserting it's unrealistic that they would be hurt by water...how in the world could you begin to know that??? there are no realistic rules to broken when talking about beings from other planets...we don't know what "rules" they live by.
No, I have not met or asked aliens anything. I'm saying its unrealistic that they would be hurt by water, but I understood that this is what the movie wanted us to believe so I went along with it. But going along with this way of thinking brings up other questions(if you choose to question things)...like water vapor in the air,clouds, the fact that humans are mostly water,etc...would that not hurt them? Why choose a planet that is mostly water when its like sulfuric acid to them? It doesn't seem like a difficult point to understand to me. Its seems that since the movie ended up having a plot based on faith, you deem all other details irrelevant. Which is cool if thats the types of movies you like. I don't. I know the movie gave you a good feeling about the power of faith and such, but to someone with no faith it was very blah. One last thing, you probably know this but I'll say it anyway. There is absolutley no organism that can live with out water. Its well known in biology. That is why we don't look for life on planets without water, because its simply impossible for life to exist without it. I'm thinking M.night whatshisname was using water for some idea that I haven't been able to understand, you know, the liquid of life being the one thing that can hurt these evil, uh, apes from another planet(or whatever). Once this "water hurting the evil aliens" thing was established, I started to lose interest, I mean hell, it might as well have been the cream inside of twinkes that turned the aliens into pools of gooie liquid...that would have been more believable than water doing it. And the way you make it sound, the movie would have been just as enjoyable if twinkes were the agent of death for these primative aliens. To each his own.
but youre forgetting the great underlying theme thats very pertinent to today. theyre different and we dont understand them so they have to have evil intentions. its alot like how people were afraid to swim in the ocean after jaws came out. summer blockbusters suck
you don't entertain the tiniest possibility that life on distant planets might be ENTIRELY AND COMPLETELY different than how we would define on a water-filled planet??? certainly no KNOWN organism can survive without water...but what about the UNKNOWN? but ultimately, i'm with you...to each his own. i can't make you like this movie!
Forget about the aliens being hurt by water. These things could travel through space and destroy civilizations but are easily trapped in a kitchen pantry??? That was my breaking point for liking Signs. Back on topic, if aliens do come and we are able to communicate with them, will evangelists try to convert them to Christianity? That would seem rather silly. "He died for your sins...well ours really...but he would have died for you too if you guys were here then..."
I'll tend to agree with the pantry thing, but, who knows? Their whole infiltration group might've been out of whack. (again, I had the largest problem with that part.) However, the water ideal didn't bother me at all. First, we as humans HAVE to have water, and yet, if we drink water from the Ocean, we die much faster than if we didn't. H2O has many, many components to it. Adding salt to it kills humans, etc. For all we know, the aliens came down, tested the "major water areas" (ie. Oceans), found that the water there after experimentation was safe, and proceeded. (not knowing that "potable" water was going to be detrimental to them. For example... We send a spaceship out to dominate a planet. We notice that this planet is covered in potable (not salt) water. Being the conquerers that we are, and fearless of any inhabitants, (because we've only sent idiot researchers there) we decide to invade the planet, and get the water. Much to our chagrin, the only "potable" water the inhabitants have to survive contains a deadly sulfuric gas that eats at our skin when touched. Again, maybe a little far fetched, but we are talking about a fictional movie where green men come to attack, aren't we?
There really is no "you". Again, you are not a separate entity from your arm, cut off or not. And since you are really made up of everything in the cosmos, dying is really an illusion. Are you aware that "you" are "dying" right now? But we go through a continual rebirth each moment, whether it be the cells of our body, or our thoughts. And when our bodies cease to function, our thoughts, actions, body, and energy continue to penetrate the universe eternally. You and your painting are both dying right now. Time is relative. When we one with God, we can not cease to exist. If the universe is eternal, how could it be created? The 7-D Einsteinian Hyperspherical universe is eternal. It has no beginning and no end. As Stephen Hawking said so well: "The Universe just IS". Einstein himself said: "Time is an illusion". From a Christian perspective, How is God separate if he/it plays such an important role in our lives? Was Jesus separate from God? How can you love, praise, communicate, and have an relationship with something you are not a part of? Bread and wine are not symbols.
sorry fatty, if water contained "sulfuric gas" it would be sulfuric acid, not water. Also, which type of water are you taking about that has 'many,many parts'? H20 is exactly what it is 2 hydrogen 1 oxygen...nothing more or less. You can easily extract other parts out of water(hell we've been able to do that for hundreds of years now), and get pure water any time you want. The only reason ocean water is bad for us(it won't kill us, otherwise I'd have been killed 2 days ago), is because it has too much salt and other potientially virulent organisms living in it...again it is easy to purify this if need be. -Adding salt to water does not kill us...we need salt to survive, its bad for us in mass quanities just like ANYTHING is. Water is a great solvent with its good size dipole moment yet is very stable, this makes it the necessary medium for ALL life to conduct its cellular activities through. Every single living(important word) organism must have water to live. Period.
Let me just get corny or something here for a minute. Many people who don't believe in God, see god as some kind ultra supernatural being, that does magic, and that's why they don't believe. What if going by the bible, that those who know love know God. God is love etc. I think just about everyone believes that love exists. And knowing love is knowing God according to the bible. I think talking about God as a magician who, who performs magical feats in the blink of an eye is the wrong way to look at it. But truly unbelievable things are accomplished in the name of love, and by loving. That's my corny bit for now.
