Hmmmmm..... OK. That's a little insulting. I'm not quite sure why people feel this question is tantamount to slapping your sister, but whatever. And by my saying I was blessed, I meant that my family gave me these ideas and beliefs at an early age. I feel bad for children that are taught early on that there "is" nothing after this.
I don't feel its tantamount to slapping anyone. But I find your original premise condescending as hell and your follow-up posts confused at best. You told Mrs. JB you loved a good debate but you didn't provide the seeds for one. You basically said, 'I know better, why don't you?' And then asked the people you'd insulted to explain their positions. It's no wonder you haven't converted your atheist friends when your best argument is my parents told me so. The thing is this: No one knows. Saying you do and then asking others to agree with you or admit they're wrong is the height of zealotry. You didn't really 'ruffle feathers' as you said -- you just invited ridicule. p.s. I do like you, Fatty. Hope you don't get me wrong there. But one insult deserves a better one. Especially when you leave yourself wide open and beg for it.
My argument is, and always will be: Why believe in nothing? Or why take the lackadaisical way out and say I think there is "something" afterwards, but I choose not to investigate it. If your personal beliefs skew otherwise, then I'm not talking about your beliefs.
Fatty, I tend towards atheism so you obviously ARE talking about my beliefs, your steady stream of half-hearted retractions not withstanding. The only thing that keeps me from strictly identifying as an atheist is the stronger belief that I know nothing of possibilities beyond this world. As arrogant as I am, I am not so arrogant as to believe I absolutely know something that is absolutely unknowable. The real question is why do you choose TO believe something? And I guess you answered that when you said your parents told you to. It is not lackadaisacal as you said to believe in 'something' but not something specific. Study, investigate all you want (you obviously haven't much since you called out pagans with no understanding whatever as to what they believe), you will wind up in the same place: believing something specific because you were told to and because it comforts you to do so. Your inference that atheists or pagans are lazy or haven't done their research is laughable. Very few atheists are raised that way -- they find their way to that position after deep thought on the subject. Fewer still pagans are raised as such. They find themselves pagans as a result of searching for a truth they can embrace. Your position in the face of this is arguably the most 'lackadaisacal.' You were told something as a child, accepted it as absolute fact and then set about calling those people who had searched for truth and arrived at a position different than the one you were taught as a child lazy and inferior. And then you said, hey, don't get mad, I'm just asking a question 'out of curiosity.' How else, by the way, do people ask questions? Anyway, no hard feelings or anything, but please don't act shocked that people are insulted when you frame your 'curiosity' in condescending fashion and follow it up by proving you haven't thought nearly as deeply on this topic as the ones you accuse of not thinking deeply enough.
Are there a lot of atheists that talk their children into their way of thinking? Most atheists I've known had come to their own conclusions even though they were exposed to some religion all through childhood. Strange that you feel bad for people that aren't taught your way of thinking when they are young and impressionable. If your weren't so beign in your tone I'd think you were just being arrogant.
OK, maybe I am incorrect in my assumption of some parents, but I distinctly remember at a younger age my friends parent's scoffing at any idea that there was anything after this life. I remember thinking "that is simply not right." As far as me being lazy because I chose to believe in my teachings at an early age is not a fair statement.
I didn't call you lazy, Fatty. I said you were full of **** for calling others lazy for believing what they believe. There's a good section on this in the Bible. You know, the one about the splinter in your neighbor's eye? Your friend's parents are the exception. If you'd done any 'investigation' as you called on others to do, you'd know that. The splinter thing works here as well.
So are you suggesting I need a spritual enema? Seriously, I don't see how I'm full of crap here. If you believe in something after this life, fantastic. If you don't, I'm simply looking for a rationalization.
You don't listen well. Here's how it went: You said it was 'lackadaisical' to believe in something, but not something specific and suggested people who don't have an absolute belief in a specific version of the afterlife should do more 'investigating.' I replied that it was more 'lackadaisical' to stick with believing what you were told as a kid than to search for answers on your own and that it was silly to tell others to 'investigate' when you hadn't done so yourself. You replied that I called your beliefs lazy. I replied that I never said that; rather I implied you were being hypocritical. You asked if you needed an enema. Are you sure you like a 'good debate?'
Rationalization? What value could that have to you? You stated : "I don't have "proof." I'm quite certain no one does. I also believe that God is the reason why there is no "proof". " "And by my saying I was blessed, I meant that my family gave me these ideas and beliefs at an early age. " That is the opposite of rational thinking. You had your beliefs given to you at a young age and you use your fatih in god to explain the rest that you can't explain. Agaain, what value would a rational response have to you? It's obviously nothing compared to your faith, as you never seemed compelled to look past it. But anyway, fine here's my rationale: I've never been to the afterlife and I don't know anyone who has, nor have I ever seen any pictures. Your turn, give me a rational counterpoint.
I already gave you an answer to this earlier in this thread. You obviously do not give "God" enough credit for creation. In your mind, this world and what we have named "matter" is worthless. To me it is all "God" and perfect. I DO NOT NEED ANYTHING MORE. You need to appreciate what is. Heaven is now, you're soaking in it. What do you think you were before your so called "life"? Answer: The same thing you are during and after.
I am an apatheist with atheist leanings. I don't believe based on my own philosophical conclusions. Even if I am wrong I would rather be wrong and true to my beliefs than have bought into something that often contradicts my very being. That being said, I am an apatheist in that I don't really care about the God question for myself or for others. It has no real relevance to my life. Having said that, I love religion and religious history in an academic sense. About my background - no, my parents did not teach me my beliefs. I was raised Episcopalian, often attended Methodist services, a few Prsebyterian ones, and spend a lot of time around Baptists and pentecostals - attending their services, going to bible studies with friends, etc., never in a searching kind of mindset, just out of curiosity. When I was 12 I was supposed to be confirmed in my church, but I refused. My mother and father then tried to force me to for many years (my mother giving up last when I was around 17). I simply had no interest. At 12 I had not formed strong philosophical ideas, mind you, I simply had an intuition or feeling that it was not desirable. And, yes, I have read the bible and most other major religious texts. I have read pro-religion philosophical and mainstream works, anti-religion ones, a great deal of early Christian/late antique history and a little on contemporary religious practice, movements, etc.. So, in terms of religion, I am overly educated.
i am not a pure atheist. But i do not believe in the bible. If people do believe it i do not mind, i am even happy for them, but i can not believe it. The problem with this question is, if you want to believe in a god or if you do not want to believe in a god, you must understand it. I for one can not understand those thinks. If there is no god then after life there is nothing. for eternity. i can not understand that. If there is a god. People wil come in heaven for eternity, and i can't understand that either. I can not understand eternity, it goes beyond our inteligence.We aren't capable of understanding anything that involves god. If there is some hihger power we could not understand it. exaple why i cant understand anything. how did the world come here and our life. first explanation: god created it. response: how did god get here? we can't understand that. second explanation: the big bang made this world response : how did the molecules get there? we can't understand that. It al comes down to believe, neither of the explanation is proven or solid. we just can't understand it. and we wil never be able to understand it, so i stopped trying. i just want to have a good life and enjoy it. and what happens after that wil come in time. if i die i wil know the truth. i want to be a good person in my life and treat others good.
I was taught from a very young age that unless you do A, B and C, then you're going to hell. And if you don't do those things in the right order, then you're going to hell. If you question hell, then you're going to hell. Now, however, I don't think salvation is an if/then statement. How can you believe in a God that only loves you if you do your chores? That said, maybe we're in the Kingdom of Heaven now, at this moment. Instead of always thinking ahead to a future that may or may not exist, we can focus on the present moment -- live fully and with joy. Perhaps we're only a shift in perspective from salvation.
Fascinating thread. Since I want to understand athiests better, can someone comment or correct my assumptions: Is it possible that a God can exist? If yes, is it possible that we can gain any understanding of god(s)? IY, is it possible the god(s) even consider us? IY, is it possible g.(s) could communicate that consideration to us? So if it's impossible in any of the final three points, the implications would equal those of the conclusion that God doesn't exist. (Since we can't comminicate, what's the difference?) My conclusion: Athiests believe in the impossible. (Small joke here. Please don't take offense. I really want to know athiests' train of thought or why you believe what you believe.)
Christ said that...Christ said the Kingdom of God (maybe or maybe not what we'd call Heaven) is here now. I'm not sure what that means, EXACTLY. But I have some thoughts on it. Eternity is now. It doesn't begin when we die. If we have eternal life, then it started at our conception and goes from there. Forever.
