A question to the atheists/pagans out here....

very well said.

 

Fatty: I really just want to clarify this argument because you are ALL over the map here.

First, about Pagans and their beliefs, you said two things:

<b>I would really, really like to know why anyone thinks there is nothing beyond this world. </b>

and

<b>you'll like to know, however, that there are plenty of Pagan's that don't believe in any God, and that was my point.</b>

For clarification, Pagans don't believe in the traditional "God" ideology of the Bible. But, they DO believe in a world beyond this one. It is central to the core of their beliefs. They term it "Mother Earth" or, as Native Americans might say, "The Great Spirit," but it is still a life beyond this world.

As for God, that is an entirely different story. Buddhists and Taoists do not believe in the existence of "God" either. Yet, they firmly believe in their version of spirituality that includes life beyond this one.

I think you are mixing your ideas here.

Second, the idea that it isn't a belief in something:

<b>"I apologize to pagan's, BUT I do feel you need to choose a belief, if any."</b>

followed up by...

<b>The fact that you believe in something is not good enough IMO.</b>

That is logically incopatible. You want people to choose a belief but just believing in SOMETHING isn't good enough???

And Atheists HAVE made a choice. They choose to believe that life ends at death and that's it. That is a choice in a belief system, albeit a non-religious one.

Your comments make no logical sense whatsoever.

 

Uh, is this addressed to Atheists? Agnostics? Wiccans?
Or is it addresseed to people who don't believe in an afterlife? In which case you're talking about judaism?

Clarify yourself and then you will get a legitmate response.

 

In God we trust.

 

Metaphor fills our lives, but it is subtle and often unobserved even when we are confronted by it every day. Campbell points to the symbolism on our currency: "...the elegant eighteenth-century engraving still to be seen on the back of our twentieth-century dollar bill represents a realization of the philosophical way pursued by that extraordinary company of deists to whom we owe the establishment, in reason, of this nation. Composed of elements adapted from a hermetic tradition of great antiquity and universality (undoubtedly assembled from the library and great learning of Thomas Jefferson), its pictorial vocabulary is so little understood today that many suppose the word 'God' of its maxim, 'In God we trust,' to be a reference to the 'God' of the Christian religion, which it is not. For the deists rejected the idea of the 'Fall' and, with that, the necessity for 'Redemption,' as well as the idea of a special Judeo-Christian revelation. Man's nature, in their view, is not corrupt. The idea of God is innate in man's mind from the beginning; so that by reason alone man has arrived, everywhere, at a recognition of God which is sufficient. Religious intolerance is blasphemy, since in their primal ground and ultimate sense, all religions are one, as is mankind"

 

I was raised a Southern Protestant but through study and self-examination, I came to the realization a few years ago that I'm an agnostic Buddhist (though I try to emulate the compassion and love of Christ).

I believe there is no beginning and no end, and that life is energy. Energy never "dies," it just changes form. Water falls as rain, and is then absorbed by a small plant. The plant uses the water to make a flower. The flower is pollinated, eventually wilts, the water evaporates, and becomes rain again.

But I don't know the answers. I have no idea what happens when we die. Nobody else knows for sure, either (though many like to think they do!).

We all suffer and we're all looking for answers. If some of us find those answers in Christianity, that's wonderful. If others find peace in Islam, atheism or Buddhism, that's equally wonderful.

 

No one can "prove" that God exists IMO. Personally, I believe that God exists but if you ask me to prove it, I can't help you. That's why it's called faith.

My belief in God is a very personal choice as I'm sure that others non belief is a very personal choice as well. That's why, even though I have by beliefs, I don't have a problem with atheists. The world would be a much better place if the believers and non-beleivers would just leave eachother alone.

 

That's why we live in the wonderful United States of America! FREEDOM!!!

God Bless America!

 

Rationally speaking, agnosticism is the only tenable position that I can tell. Logical proofs of God invariably fail (though people still try). However, disproving the existence of God is not possible (and perhaps even less possible).

What it really all comes down to, I suppose, for atheists or believers is an intuition. Personally, I tend to incline towards atheism (if there is a spectrum of agnosticism), though I tend to lean towards the other side now and then.

The world seems too mechanistic to support the concepts of morality that most major religions uphold. Even that which isn't deterministic seems to be inherently random. Many very respectable Christian scholars have attempted to maintain the principle of free will w/subatomic uncertainty. It seems a dubious enterprise to me, since there wouldn't seem to be a natural link.

Regardless, I think *most* atheists probably believe as they do as a result of personal theodicy. The world isn't a nice place for most people out there (and yes, there could be an afterlife... but that doesn't necessarily logically justify suffering in this world). Being good isn't rewarded, mostly. Circumstances out of our control ultimately determine most actions. It might not always seem this way microcosmically - but the statistics bear it out in the aggregate. When one looks at all this - it can be difficult to believe in some sort of benevolent supreme being.

There's also the simple issue of God's apparent absence. You can't see him. You can't (at least directly) see his affects. Very few people who seem rational have ever experienced angels or anything else supernatural. We live in a scientific world - absent of evidence, many choose not to believe.

Finally, there's a disgust w/many w/the religious community in general. Religion itself is a huge problem; most of the greatest 20th century theologians even acknowledged this. I do not wish to argue the historical value of religion; however, disgust w/the church can lead to a wish to doubt the validity of any church claim. This isn't logical, but it often happens. Question many atheists logn enough, and they rant about the pope more than about the existence of God.

One thing that struck me in the original post was the author's conviction. Personally, I don't see how that kind of belief is possible. However, I've known many sensible people who feel that way (though few, it seems, who believe in much of an after life). Perhaps it's like this in the end: if you instinctively believe in God, then all that you see and think merely confirms your conviction. If you do not, then there are neither tangible evidence nor logical syllisms to change your mind.

For all my talk, perhaps it's a simple matter of a leap of faith. That I don't think I'll ever be able to make (towards atheism or religion).

 

Why do you not beleive in Clairvoyance?
oops see u answered

Atheist are actually more optimistic and have more faith in
humanity than Christians.

Rocket River

 

I once asked a friend of mine, who is an atheist and believes there is no afterlife, why he felt there was no life after death.

His response was..."none of my dead friends ever came back to tell me how great life was after death, and I know at least two of them would have if it were true".

Dude smokes some serious ganja.

 

So why are we living?

 

Because an invisible old man with a beard needed someone to worship him, maybe? Or maybe it's just a nebulous energy source with the same complex.

Either way, it's a good question if not a particularly original one. If someone here can answer it I've got a freshly minted hundred dollar bill for him. And there are others who would match that offer.

Time was, we lived at Zeus' whim, later at Yahweh's. And the beat goes on.

Regardless of ancient texts or faith, none of knows any more than an antelope about 'why we are living.' To presume that those who believe in nothing are less smart, educated, enlightened or whatever than those who believe what they were told as children or as adults to believe (by others who also know nothing more than what they were told to believe) is ludicrous. FattyFat's posts in this thread are judgmental, insulting, un-Christian and silly. I respect the beliefs of anyone who chooses to have them even as I disrespect those who seek to disdain other people's feelings on this personal matter.

 

How come god doesn't speak to anyone directly anymore? In the bible he talked to people all the time: moses, noah, abraham, etc.

what's with the coy deity routine now? is god dead? too busy? in a coma in new jersey? if worshippers are so important to him why bother with faith when he can make direct contact with us?

 

You left out drunk.

 

I don't know, ask Jesus, he was jewish and they don't really have a conception of an afterlife.

But what proof do you have that there IS an afterlife? That is even harder to "prove" than the existence of God itself.

 

what are your reasonings for an afterlife.

 

Read his first post. He was blessed at an early age to KNOW there was one. Not just to have faith, but to KNOW it. Hard to argue with (il)logic like that. At least he's kind enough to pity all us dumb folk that didn't receive the same 'blessing.'