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A Question to Obama Supporters

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rocketsjudoka, Apr 30, 2008.

  1. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    isn't the difference totally subjective based on who you like?

    Person A changed what they believe about the issue because of new information and changing situations.

    Person B did it because it was unpopular int he polls.
     
  2. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Person A in this case isn't going with the populist choice (lower gas taxes) but the choice based on experience. Person B is doing what will make her popular and help her win and she has access to info that says her support for this policy is misguided (plus tons of economists).

    Person A = leadership
    Person B = panderer.
     
  3. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    besides what the person is actually thinking, it seems the only guide you can give is that it is unpopular.

    Both are trying to win, and get themselves popular, so you cannot know what is in their minds.
     
  4. Refman

    Refman Member

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    By person A, I believe you mean Obama.

    Let's analyze this a little further.

    Raising taxes during a recession = leadership? really? sheesh

    Dumping one of your close personal friends because it is politically expedient = politics as usual. So much for this mystical "change" Obama has been touting

    Stating that a universal health care system would save the average American family $2,500 a year = flat out lie

    I'm not saying he is a bad guy. I'm just saying that he is not what he purports to be. About the only thing I agree with him on is finding a reasonable way to withdraw from Iraq. Other than that, it all seems to be bunk.
     
  5. Major

    Major Member

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    Where has he proposed raising taxes during a recession? Are you assuming we'll be in recession in 2011?

    Huh? He specifically *didn't* dump one of his close personal friends and got criticized for it. Then the guy went nuts and basically threw Obama under a bus, and then he basically said "we're no longer friends". How did anything Obama did in the whole Wright mess benefit him politically? The politically popular choice would have been to dump him a long time ago, no?
     
  6. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    when are you saying he went nuts?
     
  7. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    As Major said, when it was politically expedient, Obama refused to dump his friend(Wright). He stated in a very public speech that he wouldn't do that. Wright then turned on his friend(Obama), and began misstating Obama's beliefs in matters that were very important to Obama, and possibly this whole nation. Wright did that to someone who was supposed to be his friend. Obama then reacted as most people would, and chose to remove himself from that friendship.
     
  8. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    but then he called what Wright had previously said

    So basically Obama was initially willing to accept and defend Wright for the youtube statements, but when he came on TV and said Obama is talking as a politician when he speaks of his statements that was over the top.

    An alternative view would be that he used the Wright controversy to show his ability to bridge the gap between lack and whites in a popular speech that everyone loved but when Wright craved the limelight to much and refused to STFU he dropped him and explained it as

     
  9. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    But Mr. Obama has vulnerabilities. Only 29 percent of registered voters said they considered him “very patriotic,” compared with 40 percent who described Mrs. Clinton that way. Mr. McCain, a former prisoner of war, was considered “very patriotic” by 70 percent of the registered voters.

    From today's NYT...

    In other news, the polls in North Carolina are getting tight. If Obama loses North Carolina, he will be on the ropes... book it.
     
  10. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    He never defended what Wright said on the youtube pieces. He denounced those right away. However, he didn't denounce Wright as friend, and pastor at that point, because he understood the lack of context, and the fact that that half hour didn't sum up their 20 year history together.

    I think his speech did show that he can bridge the gap on a touchy subject, but I don't think he was looking to exploit Wright to do that. I think once the topic came up, he responded in serious and elegant way.

    However, as Wright escalated his rhetoric, and made misleading statements about Obama, then Obama escalated his reaction to Wright.
     
  11. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    no blade, as you wrote yesterday, everything is black and white. he has to stick to his guns, the sign of a true leader, never waver, its worked great for the current admin. i mean look how they handled gonzalez
     
  12. Major

    Major Member

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    A few days ago, when he went on his little mini speaking tour. Before that, as far as we know, he had maybe 10 minutes worth of crazy statements in 20 years. After that, he had maybe 10 minutes worth of crazy statements in 1 day.
     
  13. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    It's the height of naivete to believe this. This stuff is INGRAINED in a person like Wright.
     
  14. Major

    Major Member

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    The height of ignorance to assume you know a person based on a tiny snippet of his life, cobbled together on YouTube.
     
  15. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    So you think Wright was an America-loving, racially and culturally tolerant person for 20 years, then stopped and turned on a dime in several sermons, unexpectedly? That's just hilarious.

    There's a sucker born every minute, folks!
     
  16. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    i know he was when he chose to remain in the military. but i guess i'm a sucker not realizing true patriotism is wearing an american flag pin.
     
  17. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Yeah! I'm sure he was an America hating machine during his time in the military.

    Oops! pgabs beat me to it!
     
  18. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    [​IMG]

    look here sucka, I don't see no flag pin on obama or wright
     
  19. Major

    Major Member

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    No, I'm suggesting neither of us really knows the real Wright, because he hasn't been a public figure his whole life. We know his past is mixed - with some crazy sermons, along with a lot of charity work and volunteering to join the military.

    Yup. All it takes YouTube and someone prone to rash decisions and a lack of interest in facts. Worked perfectly on you.
     
  20. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    The military defense is just horrible. Lynddie England was in the military, is she a patriot? Lee Harvey Oswald? The UT Tower sniper?

    To think that Wright is and has been anything but an angry racist bigot for the last 20 years is just foolish. This stuff doesn't turn on a dime, folks. It's a way of thinking. And he's stuck on stupid, and apparently getting some naive libs to buy in as well...
     

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