non-starter if you're pro-life. it's not what she's doing or not doing to her own body that they're concerned with. it's what she's doing to the baby inside. and oh, by the way...this is THE most common answer to all this. guess what??? even Roe puts limits on. she does not have absolute freedom to do with her body what she wants...even under Roe.
I can believe conciouness and human life begins at conception all I want, and I do. That doesn't meant I have to use the power of the state to enforce it on others who don't.
i'm not talking about just you, meowgi! if "science" or something/someone else determines, "mewogi is RIGHT!!! it is a human life!!!" then a taking of that life is muder, Meowgi. what else could it be? living human beings have rights afforded to them. the most basic of those is the right to life, itself. deny a living human being that right, and you're probably going to be in trouble. unless the glove doesn't fit. then you must acquit.
I agree. I wasn't trying to argue in favor of abortions, just asking for clarification on Giddy's stance.
Yes I am, when I know my attempt to control is a worse action. They are definitely emotionally and mentally ready for a child. That is why the abortions happen. That is what you law will not stop, and instead escalate their problem.
I want to play...because I feel like it. I am: Anti-death penalty Vegetarian Anti-war Anti-abortion (I think abortions are killing life) anti-abortion-ban Moral relativist Leo Hee hee. So much fun. I just classify it thusly: a ban on abortions is not the solution to the abortion problem. In most things, I am a utilitarian here and in all things, I think the solution is cultural/educational. in other words, I think our society would suffer more from a ban and the resulting strain on various levels (adoption, poverty, health care, etc) and that our society is not equipped to handle it. I think that other things must be done first within society to make abortions more a thing of the past where a ban is not even needed. I also think that it is a given that most women have abortions for lifestyle reasons. Regardless of the gravity (or seriousness of said lifestyle change) with which they make the decision, it is there. More wards of the state not only hurst contemporary society, but it hurts the future as well and continues a horrible cycle. Even rich white guys would be able to feel the pain.
So are you assuming that every mother with doubts would be better off aborting? My mother didn't think she wanted to be a mother until she held her first-born... it was love at first sight. If a woman wants to risk her own health, I'd prefer that to her killing an innocent, unborn child. She doesn't have to take that course you know. However, she is giving the child no say whatsoever.
oops, I meant "They are definitely emotionally and mentally NOT ready for a child. That is why the abortions happen." Your mother was fortunate to understand having an abortion will not be positive. There are many who don't, and no amount of force will change that. The woman would be risking her life AND killing the child. Your implying the law will end abortions. It will not. I'm not saying she would be better off aborting. She would be better off aborting and given a chance for rehabilitation and forgiveness, than stuck in a cage. And we would be better off trying to prevent abortions through other means than inducing a fear of punishment, just like Prohibition and the war on drugs, and trying to end the killing of animals and eating of meat through legislation.
I think you are missing the point: I doubt my mother thought for a serous instant about abortion. The year was 1948-- not all that long ago...
What is your point? Because it was illegal or because she knew better? Many people in 2005 don't think about having them either.
My point is that your remark ( "Your mother was fortunate to understand having an abortion will not be positive." ) implied that she automatically gave some serious thought to having an abortion. I doubt that it crossed her mind. She was young, newly married and scared of the idea of having a baby, but that generation didn't think of abortions as a way to solve their problems or relieve their anxieties. I just find it funny that you think she did. How far we have fallen!
Unless you're eating mutton that was boiled in a covered metal bucket with a piping hot rock that was dropped in the bucket and is later served with the mutton, you're not eating true life mongolian barbecue. (PS, if you are, don't eat the rock, it's just there to keep your food warm....)
If we can get the court to classify the unborn as a human being, there won't need to be a ban on abortion. We already have laws that deal with killing human beings. For me, the best that can happen is that anyone performing an abortion will be charged with first degree murder and anyone getting an abortion will be charged with conspiracy to commit murder, both punishable by life in prison. As for women dying, being sterilized, raped, etc. while trying to have a back alley abortion, I have about as much sympathy for them as I do for someone who suffers the same fate in an attempt to murder any other person, which is very little.
No, I was implying the opposite. She already understood, she didn't have to think. I don't want to try and force women to understand. Why did she think that way? Was it because of the law only? Was it a religious or cultural belief? Was it a conclusion she had previously reached? Not everyone in that generation thought that way either. Times have changed for better and for worse. And at this time I think a different strategy would be better than use of force. I just think it would be counterproductive in this situation to strong-arm people to think a certain way, especially the scared, abused, poor, etc. It would be counterproductive of a true change of mind.
Do you know anything about true Manchurian food? I suppose it would have been similar to Mongolian food. I'm supposedly a member of that dying race. What did Mongols think of abortion?
Giddyup; In case you missed it I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but pointing out that your statement is indicative of many pro-lifers attitude, they value the unborn, particularly American unborn, than the born but since I didn't know you well enough I didn't know if that's what you really think. Given your answer and the fact that you've already admitted you think its a much bigger deal that fetus are being aborted than actually born walking arond Iraqis killed I think that statement perfectly applies to you. Ontop of that I gotta figure that a JDAM dropped into a populated part of Baghdad probably killed a few pregnant women or at least caused a few spontaneous miscarriages. Tell me would something like that bother you as much as an American teenage girl raped by her uncle getting an abortion?
Dying race.. Mongols or Manchurians? I'm part Mongol and probably got some Manchu in me too and heard anything about either of those dying out. As for what Mongols think of abortion if the 1/4 of me that is Mongol agrees with the other 3/4 then Mongols are overall for it with restrictions depending on how far the fetus has developed.
