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A question for Harden fans

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by ibm, Mar 27, 2016.

  1. Cashmoney

    Cashmoney Member

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    It's not very insightful. He's basically saying it's all Harden's fault. Any poster could have written that.
     
  2. chievous minniefield

    chievous minniefield Contributing Member

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    Fight the good fight.

    There's no way around how this season is on Harden. Except the many ways around it. And the lack of any way actually through it.
     
  3. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Around a minute on the clock
    you down three
    You fake you man and got into the lane . . . . what do you do?????

    You throw it to the corner for a Brick Three????? WTF??????

    That is 100% coaching.
    That is 100% should not have to be told but in the sense should have been.

    You in the lane. . you cut the frixking game to 1
    and then play defense.. . but no . . you go for the fricking tie
    with 45 seconds left. . . .AARRRGGg

    Rocket River
     
  4. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Amen.
    D
    D
     
  5. anchel

    anchel Member

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    Those are some bold assumptions.... I could assure like you without any evidence to support it, that Jeremy Lin was traded cause he didn't measured up as an NBA starting PG. Cause his defensive level and TO issues didn't made him the ideal complement to Harden... Here there is some Harden influence in the further trade, but he's not directly deciding the movement. I could assure with no prove to support it that Thornton was traded because the Pistons wanted him included in the deal, on the ground that their bench really lacks of scoring talent and he certainly covers that role. What about trading DMo, that was also asked by Harden?? Because we've seen him state repeatedly this season that the team was missing DMo's presence.

    The Lawson trade... it would be hypocritical not to admit that at the time it happened this whole forum saw it as a very positive, low risk-high reward move... And so on.

    I get and join the blame on Harden. It's true that he arrived to the camp out of shape. It is true that he is a defensive cancer. And his TOs are too many. Personally I would share some responsability here over the coaching staff. If our coaching was able to diversify team's offensive schemes, Harden likely would reduce his TOs. If our coaching would have not allowed certain habits to drench for 4 years, maybe Harden would have today more respect for the defense.

    If the trade for Lawson had worked out better, it would have allowed Harden delegating from the playmaking assignment and lower his TOs. ... In short, recognizing that Harden is an important responsible of current team issues, to try to hold him accountable of all our ills it sounds like hating... And btw we would be fair recognizing that he is also primarily responsible for most of the current team strengths.
     
  6. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

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    First you say we don't acquire players that Harden doesn't want. Then you say Thorton was traded because Harden didn't want to play with him. So which is it? If Harden didn't want to play with him then we wouldn't have acquired him, right?

    Likewise, if Jones is only here because Harden wants it, then why isn't he playing?

    Dwight will leave because he wants a big payday and we won't give it to him.

    Lin was traded because we preferred not to play the $15M salary in the 3rd year of his deal.

    McHale, Morey and Harden all said that he came into camp out of basketball shape because he hurt his ankle in the summer.

    Harden has been below average on defense as has everyone on our roster. Who are all of these players that have had gargantuan games with Harden guarding them?

    Our opponents score +0.7 more points/100 possession off turnovers when Harden is on the court vs off. Our opponents score +2.3 pts/100 possessions in transion with Harden on the floor vs off.

    Do you really believe that's a huge problem?

    Harden doesn't make his teammates better? Let's see:

    Howard +/- with Harden: +1.6 without Harden: -13.1

    Beverley +/- with Harden: +3.1 without Harden: -11.5

    Ariza +/- with Harden: +1.0 without Harden: -12.0

    Capela +/- with Harden: +4.1 without Harden: -0.3

    Motiejunas +/- with Harden: +2.2 without Harden: -18.2

    Beasley +/- with Harden: +1 without Harden: -12.0

    Jones +/- with Harden: -11.8 without Harden: -8.1

    Terry +/- with Harden : +5.6 without Harden: -7.9

    McDaniel +/- with Harden: +27.4 without Harden: +14.2

    Lawson +/- with Harden: -5.9 without Harden: -7.9

    Thorton +/- with Harden: +7.8 without Harden: -6.9

    Smith +/- with Harden: -3.5 without Harden: -9.6

    Harrell +/- with Harden: -8 without Harden: +21.4
     
    #46 aelliott, Mar 27, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2016
    5 people like this.
  7. Juxtaposed Jolt

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    Not sure where you got those numbers, but those are pretty crazy.

    When Harden rests, Harrell and Jones need to be on the floor :grin::eek::grin:
     
  8. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

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    Duplicate post
     
    #48 aelliott, Mar 27, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2016
  9. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    aelliott slaying yet again

    *grabs popcorn*
     
  10. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Always enjoy Aelliot's post. Only downside is I have to read Joatmacs posts to fully appreciate them.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. Zergling

    Zergling Member

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    The highest paid player on the team (hint: NOT Harden) shares far more of the blame than Harden.

    James is basically giving us runner-up MVP production right now.
     
  12. Zergling

    Zergling Member

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    Thanks aelliott for fighting the good fight
     
  13. Aleron

    Aleron Contributing Member

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    You are mistaking first banana with lone banana, a common mistake it seems.
     
  14. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

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    Those number are from the NBA website (stats.nba.com).
     
  15. txppratt

    txppratt Contributing Member

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    he's guilty of not playing better defense on a team where he is easily the best player.

    he's guilty of not imposing 50+ plus a night in order to pass to teammates and keep the game respectable.
     
  16. basketballholic

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    We acquired Thornton on a minimum contract. Harden was indifferent to the move. He wasn't for it or against it. It didn't matter. But...............when Thornton started getting consistent minutes and taking shots........all of a sudden it became a problem then for Harden.

    And now Thornton is gonzo, aelliott. Because Harden did not want to play with him. Harden did not figure out he didn't want to play with Thornton until he actually started playing with Thornton. But when he figured out he didn't want to play with Thornton, Thornton disappeared from the rotation for no explicable reason. We had posters here griping incessantly because Thornton wasn't getting minutes. It was simple to figure out. Harden didn't want to play with him. So Thornton was benched....and then he was removed from the roster.

    It's pretty simple aelliott. Why in the world you are questioning this organization catering to Harden is beyond me. He's our best player by far. He's a superstar. He's one of the top 5 players in the Association. You gonna deny this organization caters to him? Are you going to deny this roster was put together according to Harden's wishes? Are you going to deny our offensive is designed around Harden?

    As far as your silly plus-minus numbers go, our record is currently 14-24 against teams with a .500 or better record and 22-14 against teams with losing records. Here's what you need to do.....check out Harden's on/off +/- numbers against those teams with a .500 or better record.

    It's easy to accumulate great on/off +/- against the dregs of the league. But what do you do against the big boys, against the real teams you're gonna have to beat to win a championship?

    (Hint: his +/- is dreadful, absolutely dreadful against teams with a .500 or better record.)

    Sure Harden can put up wipe-out on-off +/- against the likes of PHI, LAL, PHO, NOP, etc. Off the charts.

    But.........he's been dreadful against the teams that actually aren't dysfunctional and are trying to win games and secure a playoff bid.

    All that huge montage of +/- you threw up there is nothing but waste. This season at least, Harden blows when he has to play good teams. He has sucked.



    That is reality aelliott. We are 2 games under water with 8 games to go. We are most likely tapped out at 42 wins max. That is if we actually beat the dregs we are supposed to beat in these last 8 games. And we could wind up at 40 wins or maybe even 39 if things don't go just our way.

    Harden's on/off has been inconsequential this season. Away with that false mirage of on-off plus-minus. It's accumulated against garbage teams and given back up against good teams.
     
  17. YaoMing#1

    YaoMing#1 Member

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    After watching this game and the last few how can anyone blame harden for this teams mess? He litterly gives us a chance every game by pulling us back into these games by scoring 12-15 points in 5-6 min stretches and frankly its not fair to him. He was 4-11 on threes and the rest of the team is 3-22.

    This isn't an isolated deal it happens every other game. These guys are getting wide open looks and are just clanking them. I get why Ariza and Bev play but Terry? Wtf this guy needs to have his butt glued to the bench next to josh smith.

    Until we get players that can be more consistent shooting the ball this team won't prosper. Get Harden some talent that can shoot the damn ball and this team will take off Harden is a stud and with the proper team and coach around him he can lead a team top slot of wins and have s chance every year to go deep in the playoffs.

    Our defense is bad because of the droughts we go on and the offensive rebounds we give up. Harden is not a great defender but he's been playing at a high enough level the past few games to were it's really not an issue at all and honestly he's made some key defensive plays.

    The TOs hurt but part of that is he has to do so much to get this team back into games. If we weren't constantly behind by double digits every game I think we would see a regression to the 3.5 TOs he avg his first 2 years here.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. DVauthrin

    DVauthrin Contributing Member

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    Until the Rockets change the offensive philosophy you will not see a reduction in Harden's turnovers. He had 2 killer turnovers in the final 3-4 minutes of tonight's game. The first one when he spent almost the entire shot clock trying to cross Solomon Hill over at the top of the key, Hill strips him, and forces a jumpball with 2.4 sec on the clock, which Indiana got. Then shortly after, Harden drove left into the lane and lost the ball right under the basket.
     
  19. oakdogg

    oakdogg Contributing Member

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    I'm trying to follow your argument. Are you saying that Harden should be expected to have the same +/- on his mediocre team against the elite as against the bottom dwellers? Or are you saying the Rockets as a team have better +/- without Harden against the elite teams? The former seems like a very odd expectation. The latter would be more interesting but could still probably be explained.
     
  20. bilaal14

    bilaal14 Member

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    The Coach, and the team including Dwight suck..... Harden is the only one who shows up every single night.
     

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