Also, the vast majority of servers do not make $20/hr. My wife will only make that on a good weekend night. On weekdays, she makes around $14 an hour and this is at a restaurant where the average entree is ~$35. The vast vast vast majority of them do not receive any other benefits from their job either. We pay an extra $75 a month so my wife can be insured through my work. You can say that they choose this job, so they can't b**** about that, but you can say that about any job known to man. And there is no profession out there with a shortage of whiners.
Here's my take on the whole service charge on big tables as a part-time waiter. In most resturants, waiters have to tip out to busboys, bars, sushi chefs, etc. And these generally come out of their sales numbers. So getting screwed on tips really hurt the bottom line. Of course, it's one thing to get screwed on a 2 people/$25 ticket with a $2 tip. But considering the energy and time expended on a big table, a waiter can get royally screwed by a $5 tip accompanying that $100 bill. Not only does the waiter NOT make money on the table itself(tipping out to others), but there's also the opportunity cost of other tables. My manager allows me to decide whether to put the service charge on big tickets. Most of the time, I don't, even if the amount's a little lower than I wished. It's only the customers who just won't tip otherwise that I add that gratuity onto the bill. To some who feels that big tables get bad service. The truth is, it's impossible to give speedy service to a big party. Especially when each customer having his or her own schedule. One might be ready to order, one on the cell phone, one looking at the menu, one taking care of the kids,etc. You have to expect some delays unless everyone's on the same page.
While I like the tipping system, these other tasks are secondary to customer service (getting food/drinks to the customer) and should only be done when the primary tasks have been completed. I'm not saying these secondary tasks aren't important, but I tip on customer service alone since that is the only parameter I can judge accurately. I highly doubt waitstaff would ever be paid minimum wage if the restaurant's paid them. The prices of entrees would go up by 15-25% to keep the pay of the staff the same as it is with tips. Waiters would cease being about the tip and would instead work just hard enough not to get fired. The only problem that generally causes me to dock the tip is when it is difficult to flag down the waiter/waitress. Sometimes this is a restaurant fault for having their tables all over the place. Sometimes it is because there is a big party taking up all their time.
I would agree with this with regards to your tip, but you can't simply not do the other tasks or even put them off very many times without losing your job. But basically, I was just refuting the belief that all servers do is take orders and wait for food to be ready. That's far from the only things they do and regardless of the skill level the job takes, it's a very physically demanding job if you do it right.
ive had quite a few jobs in my life. i have been a TA, ive worked in retail places like crate and barrel, michaels arts and crafts, bedbathandbeyond. a few office jobs, and even done landscaping for a few summers. and probably been a server at about 7 places or so. and i would say that is right about the top of annoyance on a job. generally for some reason managers at restaurants are overly rude compared to other places. probably due to the stress of customers/and flaky waiters and servers. then you have the customers yourself to worry about. for instance people with huge tickets that are rude constantly ask you to get things for you one at a time instead of asking for more things at once, leaving you a crappy tip for all of your running and stressing out because of the kitchen messing up your order and your table getting pissed at you about it. and to top it off they came in with kids that made a huge mess on the table and under it so if you dont have a busser helping you out you get to clean all that up your self for crap tip, or maybe even no tip at all. obviously you cant let that effect your mode or your other tips will suffer. and through all that you can have other people asking you to check there back of house or front of house duties and if they didnt clean up well either you have to do it or you get to hear them b**** and whine about it. i dont think you should really make $20 an hour obviously but you should make at least some money on top of the 2.13 an hour. and if you dont like it stay home or order out.
You should have read the rest, as all of this was covered. I, as the customer, only care about that portion of the job. Take my order, and bring back the food. We are good at that point. The boss can care about the rest of it, but he should be the one paying for those other services, not me. He could probably hire someone that makes the same amount as the dishwasher to fill ketchup bottles and roll silverware and sweep the floor. How much ketchup and silverware does a person use on their $30 check. $6 worth? The customer is paying outrageous costs for those functions. Also, no one has answered my other question. Why does the price of the food determine the amount of the tip?
That's great that it's all you care about. Doesn't change the fact that taking your order and delivering your food is not the only thing they do during their shift. You are simply wrong when you say that. You also aren't their only customer. Typically, they'll have three or four more customers that they're trying to take care of while they're waiting on you. The work that servers put in is hard physically and mentally. And those who can constantly do it with a smile on their face and without falling behind deserve to be rewarded for their efforts. Instead, they often get cheapskates who run them ragged and act like they're the only ones in the restaurant. And when the server fulfills every request with a smile on their face, they only receive a less than customary thank you for their effort. And yes, pretty much the entire restaurant industry, filled with hundreds of successful restaurant owners, probably never looked into how much it would take to hire someone to simply fill ketchup bottles and roll silverware. If only they'd visit a Houston Rockets BBS. Because it's a way for someone to be fairly compensated without the restaurant having to raise the price of menu items to offset what they would have to pay their employees in non-tipped based wages. That money is also a guide on how much they pay the hosts, servers, bartenders, etc. Not to mention, if you pay $35 for an entree, you expect better service for your experience. No offense to the guys that work at Red Robin, but you don't get the same kind of service there as you do at a high-end steakhouse, nor should you expect it. There are different expectations of service depending on which restaurant you go to. Whether or not you want restaurants to simply pay their employees a non-tip based wage doesn't mean you're going to get to pay less for your meal. You can either quit b****ing and moaning about having to pay an extra 15% on top of your actual check (which is a budget-busting $4.50 on a $30 check) or you can b**** and moan about having to pay most likely at least that much extra for your meal, but with the only incentive the waiter has is giving you good enough service not to get fired. And they'll still have to do all the other things like refill ketchup bottles, make tea/coffee, roll silverware in addition to "simply" fetching your food. I can't believe there are people that still b**** about this. Tip to the level of service you receive. If you get crappy service, there is no reason for you to tip the customary 15% (even though if you spent one day as a waiter, you'd probably still do it because you know that there are many reasons why someone would be giving you bad service, especially if the place is packed). But quit the whining about tipping in general. It's been that way for the 30 years I've been on this Earth. It's not ever going to change. If you don't want to do the customary thing, be prepared to be called a cheapskate. Because you are. And, for the love of Pete, quit this talk about how waiters are the biggest whiners out of all jobs. Read this forum daily and you'll see proof that people in all professions b**** day in and day out.
I just tip to the level of service I receive, however when going out I do consider service part of the restaurant experience. I think I can understand both sides and yeah adding an extra 15-20% on a $1000 bill (like yesterday) adds up quickly. I think restaurants prefer the tipping system because it forces the wait staff to provide excellent service or lose out on wages. Bad service is bad for everyone as the rest can actually lose customers with poor service. What do you tip waitstaff at a buffet where they only bring you drinks?
Why would they hire someone to do it when they can have the waitstaff do it at the customer's expense. No one would be tipping the ketchup filler. Could you elaborate on this please. BTW, keep in mind that you could have a radically different bill at the same restaurant based simply on your wine selection. The only way that the average customer would have to pay the same amount for their meal would be if the waitstaff was paid as much as they had been making under the tipping system. That would not neccessarily be the case. I typically tip 20%, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. There are places that do not operate under a tipping system, and they seem to get along fine. Most of the whining around here is about the Rockets (and to a lesser extent the Texans and the Astros) so unless people here are team owners, they are not b****ing about their jobs, they are b****ing about their hobbies.
Per Stupid Moniker: "Also, no one has answered my other question. Why does the price of the food determine the amount of the tip?" This is a legitimate question. It has made me reconsider tipping. It really is the same amount of work to carry a plate of chicken nuggets as a plate of Abalone ( I really do not know anywhere your can buy abalone- just for example). It really is not fair to tip 20% on the nuggets as the $300.00 plate of abalone. At this point I have no clear answer. In that example- clearly you do not tip a flat 20% based on food cost. I never include wine cost when I consider the tip-because opening a 80$ bottle of wine in a restaurant is no more effort than opening a cold beer-or a $25 bottle of wine. This is what I like about this forum- I amy not agree with you, but you challenged me to reconsider something in a new way.
Tipping more for a larger bill is more a trending issue. At the same restaurant, we VERY rarely see such huge price disparities on a menu. The size of the bill is directly correlated to the number of people at a table. Since it takes more work to serve more people, then the tip should logically be higher. There's also another trend to consider which is the "class" of the restaurant. The underlying assumption (and from my experience, it's usually true) is that the restaurant with higher entree prices will have better overall service. As a result, the tip there should logically be higher as well
I agree on all your points- ususally I eat out with my wife or a customer. 2 to 3 people at a table. If we have a group of 8 or more - I almost always pay and give the server cash money -20%-I am fine with that. I agree about the quality of the restaurant- I try to take my wife to nice places-no problem about tipping. Also- I realize you are not going to see abalone on the same menu as meat loaf, spam, or chicken nuggets. It was a stupid comparison I made. Stupid Moniker did provoke some questions in my mind.
Another Tipping etiquette question-For example at Taste of Texas- I ususally pay my bill with the credit card and give the server cash. I want tomake sure the server gets their money. I realize the money goes into a tip pool usually and the restaurant distributes the money-so it does not matter. Nevermind- I think I answered my own question.
Who said it's at the customer's expense? I would argue that most servers are good at their jobs, which includes not only making sure you get your food on-time, but also that they perform their other job duties as well. Just because you don't understand that there are more to a servers' job duties than just taking your food order and delivering your food doesn't make it any less true. The vast majority of times, the bills at tables will be similar at the same restaurant. When you are going to spend $35 on an entree at a restaurant, it's completely reasonable to expect a different level of service at that restaurant. The owners of those restaurants know that if they don't provide top-notch service to their guests, they're most likely not going to come back again to drop a couple bills on their food. I went to Red Robin on Sunday. We waited nearly ten minutes before someone even greeted us at our table. It was annoying, but it was an 18-year old kid and our bill was like $18. I just don't expect the same kind of service there as opposed to when I'm eating at a high end steakhouse. If that's going to be the case, you're going to be stuck with a bunch of people who are doing just enough not to get fired. There are waiters that make a lot of money because they are damn good at their jobs. Why would they continue to do that if they knew there was a cap on how much they can make? My wife goes into work every day with a smile on her face, does all aspects of her job and leaves there every night mentally and physically exhausted, but most of the time, with a lot of money in her pocket. There would be no incentive for her to do that if she knew that she'd make the same amount of money regardless of whether or not she gave exceptional customer service to her tables. How many sit-down restaurants where you are waited on by a person the entire time doesn't expect you to tip? I've never been to one. You should pay more attention. There are threads about people b****ing about their jobs all the time.
The server typcially has to give a portion of their sales to the busboys, hosts, and, at Taste of Texas, the managers. The rest of the money that is left after that and the sales themselves they get to keep. The only thing that giving them cash would do would be making it easier for them to declare less than what they made in tips that night, which affects the taxes on their paychecks. Of course, I always declared 100% of mine because the checks were so small anyway that I didn't even notice the extra money that was taken out. Also made for a nicer return at the end of the year. On the alcohol question, I wouldn't have a problem with them exempting your alcohol sales from the portion of your sales you have to tip out from. However, at places like Taste of Texas, the servers are expected to have an opinion about all the wines on the list, even if it's something they memorize. That's another thing about being a waiter that a lot of people don't understand. At some places (I know it's the case at Outback at least in 1995 and Taste of Texas), the server is expected to know all the ingredients of every single menu item and exactly how everything is prepared.
On alchohol- I typically order a $40.00 to $ 60.00 bottle of wine-I have always paid 20% of the gross amount for the bill-i.e.tip for the wine too. I am with my wife usually and she likes to ask questions about wine and likes the ceremony of uncorking and tasting the wine. She brought up to me that I was not expected to tip for the wine also. If a server at a BYOB uncorks the wine you bring - EXample- La Vista on Fountainview- I pay a corkage fee-say $10.00- good deal too - I can bring a very good bottle of wine- say $ 25.00 levle at Specs. I would expect to tip for the wine - just like the food served. After working in the restaurant business as a student- I respect the hard work they do. Nothing is more humbling than dealing with the public.
That's another thing I meant to bring up. A lot of these people are students that are trying to pay their way through school. I always tip on the gross amount because I know that the gross amount is what they go by when determining the tip share. What's La Vista? Any good?
I was thinking about getting a job as a waitress but after all this I think I'd rather starve than have to deal with some of these guys...
And apparently, you shouldn't be able to b**** when you do give them good service, yet they still leave you a crappy tip.
To answer the take out question: I never expected a tip, but was presently surprised when I got them. I in turn give a small tip when I pick up orders to go. As for the amount of the bill determining the amount of tip...yeah, that's stupid. I've been a bartender, waiter, and oyster shucker. Some waiters are crap and make a lot of money for doing crap comparatively. Other waiters bust their asses and make barely anything. Some tippers are great and some suck. This is our system. This is America...this is capitalism. Does europe have it better? Yes, but that's their system. It's part of our culture to kiss ass and have a feeling of deserving stuff. I treated every customer the same. I've been stiffed by all walks of people and tipped well by all walks of people. Not getting tipped sucks, but it doesn't effect how I treat the next person. It sucks working for tips, but that's just the way it is. There's no way to avoid thinking about it when you can end up with less than minimum wage on a slow night. Oh yeah, and Bartenders who also serve food get the shaft when it comes to tipping. Seriously, everywhere I've worked, I've made much more money (percentage of sales) on the floor than from behind the bar when it comes to food. I'd serve the same meals, and of course take care of drinks for the bar and for the floor, but for some reason, people at the bar generally tip a lower percentage. And it's not even a division of people thing...the same people would tip crap at the bar and then tip well when I serve them on the floor. Argh!!!! And you know what's the crappiest crap? Oyster shucking. That is a pain in the ass. I spilled blood and scarred my hands learning how to Oyster shuck. You shuck for the waiters and bust your ass, and then I also tended bar in addition to the shucking...and never got tipped for shucking, and it took time away from me tending to my customers. Bartending straight up is a good gig though. You just pour drinks, and once you get good at it, it's easier than serving food, and more fun, and drunk people tip well on drinks.
