I'm at work so I can't break down an argument as well as some of you have. I also don't get to see many Rockets games. But I do agree in part with DD. Steve needs to take his blinders off and get others involved. It won't happen much in the beginning of the season, though, with all the injuries, and two of the only healthy players being a freshman and a sophomore, so to speak (Yao and EG). Fingers crossed, Steve will see the light. But he'll never be Jason Kidd (on the court). Hopefully he won't be Starbury either.
Juugie, i was gonna post something like that but you put it well and i agree. dadakota has legit concerns about the twosome but during the preseason, atleast early before the simplification of sets for yao, both showed a huge improvement in moving the ball. they've talked about it and stressed that stats are not important. yes, talk is cheap but i think it can work out. another important aspect is that steve francis is not andre miller, john stockton, or jason kidd. he has scoring ability that the 3 combined could only dream of. why try and turn him into simply a yao/eddie set up man when you have that kind of explosiveness?the best thing is to find a balance between his and cats perimiter offense and yao and eddies interior presence. when this happens, the rocks will be championship contenders and maybe a model for other teams to try and follow. we don't need to follow the piston's blueprints or hakeem's offense, this kind of talent can make their own mark. the first step will be learning to play with each other and growing up in the playoffs. it's not important for steve to average 10 assists. if he gets 6 or 7 and yao get's 4 or 5 with his passing ability it all evens out.
DaDa you want greatness for a team that has only been together for a year or 2. You guys need to be patient and let the team grow and learn. You act like the Lakers and Kings suddenly became title contenders, they didn't. It took them 3 or 4 years together before they found the right chemistry. Same goes for the Bulls, and Pistons, and Rockets. 45 wins isn't "settling for above .500 play", 45 wins is damn good for a young team that had never played together. People like to throw away the 45 win season, which by the way would have gotten the Rockets into the playoffs LAST year so that record doesn't suck, as "Hakeem and Walt being hot", no it's a case of having a supporting cast that stepped up. Walt and Hakeem stepped up and helped Cat and Francis. Walt and Hakeem didn't carry that team, they carried the other side of the load that our backcourt was carrying. Then last year injuries killed them. Instead of people constantly wanting to move Francis to SG for god knows what reason give this team more then a year to grow.
Man, why are we being so negative? The season hasn't even started yet. The Francis haters are already contemplating how to get rid of him. Why don't we just see what happens this season and worry about the future later?
no no. that's not negativity. all i'm saying is that steve is a star shooting guard that makes max money. he's also on a team that needs to be built around their frontcourt (that probably will be a max frontcourt). where is the negativity in that?
<b>I think this years team has more talent then any recent Rockets team, what they don't have is a KNOW HOW to win.</b> You don't know that. A young team needs to find a way to win and you don't know if they know how to win until you let them play and stop putting pressure on them to be great and perfect and error free. <b>I am hoping for a Dallas Mavericks type season of 2 years ago, where the lightbulb went off in their key players and they just "GOT IT" and started winning.</b> No they didn't get it, they played one year together and got to .500, they then developed from there without the pressure of being nearly perfect. Also Dirk suddenly gaining confidence and improving helped push them over the hump. The Rockets very well may have followed Dallas in that path, and made the playoffs last year, we'll never know because injuries. But I believe that if that team were healthy they would have won more then 44 games and they would have made the playoffs. That's my opinion. <b>No more excuses, enough of the core players are established NBA player, they should take it to the next level. If not, then it may be time to go another direction.</b> This is what I don't get, why put unnecessary pressure no this team, relax and let them play and they'll win. The core players aren't all that established. Outside of Francis and Mobley this is a young team. Mo and Rice are coming off injuries, so if they're healthy definitely, we'll have to see. Other then that this is a young team. Ming is a rookie, Nachbar is a rookie, Hawkins is a rookie, Griffin is a 2nd year player. It's not easy for a young team, adding even younger players, to suddenly click and just play elite ball. The key is for this team to win 45 to 50 games and make the playoffs. This is a team that should be seeded somewhere between 6 to 8. This is a team that has the pieces to win, but have to go out there and learn to trust each other. It isn't as easy as "I trust you now, I'll pass you the ball", because some young players may freeze and be afraid to take the shot. Let the team grow, have fun, and develop. I think this team will win 50 games, but they don't need the pressure of "win or else". 2 years and a year wrecked with injuries isn't enough time to say "You better play elite ball, 45 wins and a playoff spot isn't enough, if not we're going in another direction", because that is the quickest way to wreck a young player's confidence.
I disagree verse. Ideally Ming-max Francis-max C/Pg-floor leader are the most important positions on the team) Griffin-8-9 mil to max Cuttino-Mid to upper mid level I dont think we will have trouble keeping this team together and you aren't giving steve enough credit.
The negativity is that you're already talking about your preference to get rid of Stevie over Ming, a player who hasn't done squat in the NBA yet. I'm just saying let's see how Steve and the Rockets do with this team that looks to have a good supporting cast. To this point, I don't think Steve has had a fair shot at making the playoffs. This year, I think he does.
Do not forget Matt Bullard. Without him we would of only won about 39-40 of those games. His 3 point shooting was on fire that year, and bailed out the Rockets on many occasions.
What was our record last year with Cat and Francis in the starting lineup? I think it was pretty close to .500 so I think that should be our baseline. We are definitely a better team than last year with a healthy Rice and MoT while adding Yao and Boki. Also, defense has improved quite a bit judging from the preseason, so there plenty of reasons to be optimistic.
granted, ming has not produced on the nba level as of yet. i'm basing that on the assumtion that he does produce on the nba level. should he not, he won't be a max player and none of this applies. i believe, however, that he will pan out. then you have the situation i stated. that's no huge knock on steve. it's more of a statement on the impact a ming/griff frontcourt COULD have.
I think any talk of giving Francis the door is premature. Ming and Francis can be great together. Francis has done a lot in the way of trying to make Ming feel welcome. Ming still needs to learn alot, and Francis needs to learn as well, but it's not about Francis just being selfish. He's a guy who doesn't mind not taking the last shot, and has been asked by the team to shoot MORE, in the past years. IMO, Francis is dedicated to winning above personal play. The only possible problem is that he may think winning is more about him doing more scoring, and he tries to do too much. I'm not even 100% sure of this sense it's been hard for the team to have a consistent rotation. But it's possible that Steve wants very much to win, but sees the things that will lead to winning different than many of us do. His energy and dedication are behind question. He's done everything he could as far as getting himself healthy, and working out in the off seasons. He tries to welcome new players such as Ming, and develop good chemistry with the team. Steve may never agree that more passing is what's required of him to make the team as a whole better, but it his eagerness about Ming does show he's interested in having high calibur players around him, and a top quality PG like Steve, and a great center like Ming will be, can be dominant. I think it's far wiser to see how these guys and the rest of the team gels, before saying it would be wise to trade Francis.
The quote below is from an Oct. 2 Chronicle article in which Francis expressed his views Rudy's new offense... "I think it's the best thing for us," Francis said. "For three years, we've been basically stomping ourselves in the foot trying to do one-man things. I really don't think it works. I think continuity in our offense means not only getting our good players shots, but a lot of players shots. " Yeah that sounds alot like an imature, ball hogging (cause i don't trust my teammates), highlight reel mentality to me. A large majority of you have hashed the same old tired arguement over and over again. Steve doesn't pass, or yeah he passes, but he only passes to Cat and Mooch. Steve wants to to win (or do you question that as well) and as such his words and actions have shown that he is willing to get the ball to whoever stands the best chance of scoring. With that being said, on last years team, who would you want shooting the ball more that Cat or Steve (the two best scorers on the damn team). Kenny Thomas's game was elevated last year, who passed the pall to him. Another point. Rudy has admitted that his offense for the last few years has been mostly ISO's. Why, because he felt that he could take advantages of mismatches that got his best players shots (as supported by Francis statement above). So if the offense was designed to get them open shots, why would they pass it, and again who would you rather have taking the shot, Cato, Torres (so good he's still with the team), Mooch, Morris, Walt (see Torres)... More than half the teams in the league would love to have Steve and you people want to ship him off for some mystery "true" point gaurd and a draft pick. I have a great idea, how about you guys try believing in your "ALLSTAR" point gaurd (since he is the only Allstar on this team... sorry YETTI but Ming ain't there YET). The coach seems to believe in him, the GM and owner seem to as well (as indicated by his max contract) and you'll excuse me if I trust their judgement over yours.
O-Dawg, The larger point is that we have been hearing that for the last 3 years. Sound and fury signify nothing, actions speak louder then words. I am hoping you are right, and that what we are seeing is a maturation of Steve, and he will become the player we all hope he becomes. I root for him the hardest because I expect more from a team leader then from role players. I just have not seen it........but let's hope it begins tonight. Nothing like passing the ball and winning to reinforce what the coach says. On this...I would LOVE to eat crow. DD
I will echo the sentimates of others and say that I agree with a small portion of what you had to say in the original post; which I might add was well written. However, let me state this, I feel like Steve is an extremely great scorer, he has a nice mid range shot, an incredible first step, a rebounder, and I will go against the grain here and I will even say when he sits his mind to it, he can also pass the ball. I agree Houston has a ways to go in several area, the most glaring would have to be Experience...That is what will win games, and I believe that Steve grows with his new teammates that he will grow in experience. Now here is where I will get blasted Im sure. I dont think its Mobley's job to make sure the ball is distributed, he is a SHOOTING guard, his name alone should tell you his resonibilty on the floor. However it doesnt hurt to if your in a bad position or being doubled, that you pass the ball. I thought he did pretty well during the preseason passing the ball. I do agree also about Yao being a GREAT mismatch player, and I feel like as he proves himself in "in-game" situations that the ball will be sent to him in the Half court offensive. But I dont care if he was drafted number one overall or not, you still have to prove that you can hit that shot when the game is on the line in the fourth. Now on to Fast Eddie Griffin, Houston has been on a search since Dream started his decline to find someone who could guard our backdoor, and I feel like at least in the defense area, we have found our man. But what is wrong with having him as our defense specialist? If he can shot consistently down-low I see no problem with the offense coming through him from time to time, but as far as offense goes I see him as more of a Robert Horry, than a Tim Duncan. I will close this long poorly written post by saying this, I think we should allow this WHOLE team some time to grow together before we declare it disbanned. Thank you
I hope your not serious? I think you know what I meant, but I will laugh to safice your odd sense of humor
indeed. i know what you meant. and, yea, my sense of humor is odd...and expansive. laughter, my friend, is the elixir.
DaDa, I definitely agree with you that there has been far to much talk and not enough action. Rudy has been telling us for the past three years that he wants to run more, still waiting on it. I do see glimpses of it, and it was encouraging to hear that he was really driving it home in training camp, but Rudy has to find some way to transfer that to the regular season. I just have a problem with my fellow Rockets fans placing an inordinate amount of the blame for the Rockets offensive woes on Stevies shoulders. I think the problem is first: the offensive scheme (which should change this year), second: the Coach (whose responsible for making sure that his offense gets run correctly), and third: the player (for not reading what the defense is giving you correctly, this only improves with time, pratice, and experience). Don't get me wrong. It frustrates me to no end to see Steve make a bone headed play or hold the ball to long, but in all honesty there is no other point gaurd i would rather have on our team right now. You put Steve in a Nets uniform and i think that not only will he do well, but he would thrive, becuase he can stick the jumper (especially from mid-range). Can you say the same for Kidd in a Rox uni... But in the mean time lets just agree that i would like to see you eat crow too , because that would mean that the Rockets have gelled as a team and are headed for the playoffs.
rocksmillenium - great posts. why does is it have to be griffin/ming OR francis/mobley? seems to me that this is the ultimate time to be a rocket's fan. i've never been more excited(other than the 2 championships) but even before game 1 we're questioning the mix? if these FOUR guys are given time to gel, as in more than one preseason, i think they'll be great together. this is an unstoppable team in the making, enjoy the ride.
