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A potentially new way to use Yao

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by agentkirb87, Dec 3, 2008.

  1. ekim

    ekim Member

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    This is not a new way...

    Yao tried that last year and sucked. Now we are playing more JVG style of offense with Yao because last year's experiment failed.
     
  2. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member

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    If Yao can hit that shot consistently it would open up so much more for our other players, not to mention having a 7' 6" guy that can pass to cutters on the baseline because he can see over the defense would be nice.

    He has started to hit it, which is good.....can save some wear and tear from banging on the low block.

    DD
     
  3. JimRaynor55

    JimRaynor55 Member

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    Forget pick-and-fade, I want to see an attempt at pick-and-roll. Am I the only one who remembers how dominant the T-Mac/Yao pick-and-roll was in the 2005 playoffs? When Synergy Sports was still giving out its free public preview, I believe it showed Yao as best in the league when it came to converting close shots that weren't post-ups. I don't know where he stands now, but the ability is/was there.

    If Yao isn't posting up with his back to the basket, pick-and-roll should be his #2 scoring option. But I notice that this team doesn't even try to look for him after he sets a screen. Yao may not be the most mobile player (like Amare who is a pick-and-roll monster), but the whole point of the play is to disrupt the defense and create a mismatch. If the defense traps the pick then Yao is wide open for the layup/dunk; if they switch then Yao is being guarded by a 6'0-6'8 guard.

    I have a feeling that this would be a lot more effective than the way Yao is currently being utilized on offense whenever he's not posting up: a static high post "passer" trying to look for cutting and splitting teammates or the mid-range jumper, who rarely actually creates anything.
     
  4. SageHare6

    SageHare6 Member

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    To his credit, OR fault, JVG was big on playing the percentages. But to a previous poster's remark, there's bias in these numbers as far as where and in what situation Yao is in to succeed or fail. Personally, I think Yao IS a terrific outside jump-shooter. But like most shooters, he has to pick his spots. I think the top of the key jumper is ideal for him.

    The problem, imho, though is the second order problem of offensive rebounding. Yao's gonna miss. And if tends to be one and out anyway when he posts or shoots of jumper, percentage wise, it still makes sense to go with the higher percentage post. But with Yao outside, you'd think the forwards would be able to do more inside. Less clogging of the paint for drives too. If this team had size at the 4, then this all makes sense. Without it, it doesn't.

    But either way, there's no basis to NOT think Yao couldn't establish himself as a mid-range jump shooting force. Just a matter of what works best for team success.

    :)

    theSAGE
     
  5. jae713

    jae713 Member

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    It could unclog the paint for Artest. I haven't seen Yao shoot enough of those shots to make a judgement.
     
  6. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member

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    Unclogging the paint for Artest is not enough, you have to remove the cellophane from the rims as well.

    DD
     
  7. abigwreck

    abigwreck Member

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    Didn't Shaq block Yao like 3 times in the Pheonix game on jumpers?
     
  8. rocket_republic

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    yao could be like Big Z in houston...... I think this is a good Idea because T-mac and ron etc. would have enough room in the basket :D :D :D :D



    __________
    Where 22 Happens
     
  9. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

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    Options. Adleman's offense is about options.

    2 points is 2 points.

    We've got TMac, Artest, Landry, Scola, Brooks and even Battier now who can score reliably inside the paint ...if Yao isn't in there.

    Whoever is open inside the paint for a layup gets the shot. If Yao is doubled, move out and set a pick. Then the other guy goes in for a layup ...if he's covered, kick it out to whoever IS open. If Yao is open ...let him shoot. It's simple.

    Keep moving ...whoever is open ...SHOOT!!!!! simple as that.

    Yao having the ability to hit that shot gives the team even more options.
     
  10. nokidding

    nokidding Member

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    Mid-range jumper is Yao's more efficient weapon when Yao just came here. Under JVG, it's not prefered. Yao just needs some time to pick it up.
     
  11. agentkirb87

    agentkirb87 Member

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    Yao isn't really athletic enough to be a deadly pick and roll player. Sometimes it just works to perfection and its an easy basket.

    But yea, in general I agree. He should try pick and roll too. I wouldn't try to run the pick and roll with Yao when they are gunning for Yao. Pick and roll worked like it did because teams were gunning for Tmac and it left Yao open.

    I would argue that guys like Landry, Hayes and Scola are better offensive rebounders than Yao is because they are more athletic. And it works both ways. Whoever he is being guarded by is probably going to come out and attempt to block the shot, meaning he won't be there for the defensive rebound. And if he stays for the defensive rebound... Yao is wide open.

    I agree with you that we should always be looking for the post option as that is his higher percentage game, but sometimes they front, or double without the ball... and you don't want to force it into him, but you still want him to be useful on offense, so the pick and fade would be useful in that situation.

    But other than
     
  12. leebigez

    leebigez Contributing Member

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    The thread I created weeks ago about "yao touches," it was to show he gets the ball in scoring positions a lot. In adelmans offense, when yao gets the ball at the elbow, he can easily turn and face the basket. When he does this and players are cutting, if the guy who is guarding him sinks, he's in a scoring position with the ft line jumper. If brooks has the ball on the same side as yao and he calls for a pick, yao does have to go to the 3pt line, he can move to 16 ft, brooks reads the pick and if the big follows him, yao is open for the j. Yao isn't going to put the ball down and beat someone off the dribble, but taking and making that jimmy is a good shot for him. He's a really good shooter, he just needs to be ready to take it. Watch Duncan play, he gets 6-8 pts from the mid range jimmy. Either the shot off the glass or straight ahead. When the game gets close late, he'll park on the blocks and work, but he opens the baseline for manu and tony by stepping out.
     
  13. jVgOwnsYou

    jVgOwnsYou Contributing Member

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    How could you be against adding another weapon to Yao's arsenal. The more versatile he can be, the better.
     
  14. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    i don't get the idead that Yao needs to get comfortable or practice his jumper. The guy HAS shown he can hit it. Like i mentioned earlier, when he only shoots one he usually misses, but its because he's hesitant, as if he's not sure he should take it. When he shots more he makes a high percentage. He's ready and comfortable already.

    Also, no one is suggesting that he should only shoot jumpers. It's about mixing it up for him and getting some more movement going. If you limit him to the post, then he's predictable and will sometimes waste too much time just trying to get position or passing the ball back out. It's clear he's more succesful when he's able to quickly get position, quickly receive an entry pass, and quickly make a move. When he hold its or doesn't get it quickly he's likely to turn it over or get a bad shot. If you give him like 5 or 6 jumpers a night, it forces the defense to move out of the paint, especially their big man. They did try something similar last year and it failed, but it was mostly centered around Yao passing from there. I'm not suggesting the same thing.

    For example. Have the team come down the court, Yao quickly tries to get post position, if succesful then he gets the entry pass, if not succesful right away, let him flash to the free throw line, as he does this, the ball is moved around, looking for a possible backdoor cutter, if that's not there, then Yao gets its, let him shoot, look for an open man, or simply pass it back. The key is for him to decide which of these to do quickly, not hold it waiting for something to develop. Once he passes it back, a backdoor cut is again an option or you look for an open man. Meanwhile, Yao is going back to the post, since the defender moved, then this may allow Yao easier position the second time around.

    The way it's being done now, Yao would stay down low fighting for position and the other guys would just hold it or swing the ball around, this also gives others options, but Yao is forgotten, still fighting for position. What i suggested still gives others opportunities, but keeps Yao in the mix and doesn't allow the post defender to anchor himself down, making it easier for Yao.
     
  15. jVgOwnsYou

    jVgOwnsYou Contributing Member

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    Heck if he can get easy looks every now and then from the perimeter, he should take the shot because A. he can shoot that B. its the only time there arent defenders draped all over him C. He doesnt have to work at all to get that shot up and that means he gets a clean look without the threat of the dreaded Yao Ming turnover.

    I'm all for him shooting mid range jumpers. Gives the team another scoring option.
     
  16. agentkirb87

    agentkirb87 Member

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    I'm feeling ya leeb. The issue with Yao getting the ball on the elbow and having players cutting to the basket, is that is really easy to defend. Yao isn't a post up threat at the elbow, so if you put a guy on Yao that generally will keep Yao from shooting. Then its just an issue of being able to deal with the people that cut to the basket.

    But yea, the rest of your post is true. Obviously you lose out a little compared to guys like Amare that do the same thing because Amare can put the ball on the floor, but the whole point is that at the end of games when they are gunning for Yao... I think thats a solid solution.
     
  17. rocketswinitall

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    for all of you who say that he cant hit the shot, take a look at his predraft workout before we drafted him. He was hitting mid to long range shots left and right
     
  18. shaggylambda

    shaggylambda Member

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    I seriously think the problem with his jumpshot is the jumping part. It throws off his timing. I think he is tall enough and his shot is quick enough to just shoot without jumping and still not get his shot blocked.
     
  19. leebigez

    leebigez Contributing Member

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    When ur 7'6, it jut needs to be a set shot like Barry,Sabonis, Big Z.
     
  20. Shaunjon

    Shaunjon Member

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    I always wondered why we never used Yao Ming to shoot threes, I remember watching his draft workouts and they were saying he had long distance range, and he was hitting them in practice like nothing
     

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