I'm an Honors college grad myself so count me among those curious as to which professors are stating or suggesting that slavery wasn't as bad as it is often portrayed. My guess is that the professors actually said something to the effect that other groups in American history had it worse at times than some slaves. This would be somewhat true - as a Chinese-American railroad worker who was either worked to death or deported after the job was done probably suffered as much more than a house slave. However, that doesn't logically lead to the conclusion that slavery "wasn't as bad as we've been taught." Princess, I don't know if the course is still offered, but UH at one time had a "History of Evil" class. I would highly recommend taking this class if you have the opportunity.
The norm is that 51% . . .or 60%? The most overlooked aspect of slavery and oppession and discrimination was the psychological affects it had. White folx like yourself. . think 400 yrs of oppression is made up for in 40 yrs . . .with as little individual effort as possible. 10% . . that is a mighty good deal . . .. Rocket River
Princess .. . . PUL LEASE 1. I doubt your ability to see and understand white racism Alot of WHITE RACISM . . you do not see because it does not affect you. Alot of Racism comments you take as pure humor . . . nothing more. . . I'm willing to bet you shrug off make excuses for .. . . and just miss more racism than a lil bit 2. How many black folx do you know? TRULY KNOW!! How many white folx do you know? If your statement is true. . . Then you are saying a larger percentage [much larger] of black folx are racist that white folx [considering white folx outnumber black folx] and well . . princess. . .I simply do not beleive you I beleive 1. you don't know many black folx [this is an assumption] 2. you not a real rockets fan. . . I'M JOKING HERE *GRIN* I will open my eyes. . . if you will open yours. . . . talk on Rocket River
this one always confuses me. Princess . .this is what that statement says. 1. you were the lowest qualified white person to apply there . . .that could have made it. 2. NO white person less qualified than you made it [because if he/she did . .. maybe they took your precious spot] 3. The lowest qualified person that made it is minority. can you back up these with facts? once again . . sounds like something to say to yourself or someone to say to you to spare your feelings. are these only 2 events where you blame others? watch yaself. . . you acting like a minority [insert sarcasm] Rocket River
I agree with this point,however this cannot be attributed to only black people.The problem is one of personal responsibility and it knows no racial lines.People of all races seem to shift the blame for whatever problems they have.We see it everyday,with all the frivolous lawsuits.Also in the way people blame their childhood for their problems etc,etc.. everywhere you turn you see someone looking to shift blame for anything and everything.I think this is one of the major problems facing America today. The political correctness movement has also gotten way out of hand.Soon we will all be forced into a society of clone like people where no one dare speak out against the majority.The problem with pcness, is how do really know what the true character of someone is ? I'd much rather live in a society where people speak from their own heart,at least you know the true character of who your dealing with.
Hi, This is Elvis Costello's wife again - now I've got my *own* username! (Yes, it's a bit silly, since my Rockets knowledge is fairly miniscule. However, I support them wholeheartedly, love Moochie's hair, and desperately want a bobble-head.) I just want to say that: I'm a TA for history classes at U of H. I've been in the Ph.D. programme for nearly four years and sat in on countless undergraduate classes. I've graded literally hundreds of papers and exams and run review sessions (I might even have graded *your* exams, Princess). I know all the professors, and I feel utterly confident in stating that there is *no one* on the UH history faculty who would: a) say that numbers of lynchings have been exaggerated. I'm still waiting for some direct quotes from your professors (and some numbers) on this one. b) argue that slavery 'wasn't as bad' as initially thought. The historical debates Princess is referring to here (I think) have to do with arguments about 'oppression' and 'agency'. Some historians in the 50s and 60s argued that slaves became like concentration camp victims, retreating into a protective shell and becoming utterly spiritually vanquished. More recent research has suggested that slaves created a rich culture after dusk and before dawn, which allowed them to survive their horrific circumstances with some degree of dignity. Princess, I think, has taken these theories about slave culture, among others, and assumed that slavery 'wasn't that bad'. Which is, of course, a load of crap. c) a side-note: yes, there were black slave-owners. A lot of them were former slaves who managed to become free and worked for years to buy their families; they often tried to free their common-law wives (remember, slaves couldn't legally marry) or children but their manumission requests were turned down. Listen, Princess: of *course* American history is more complex than what you're taught in elementary school. That's why you go to university. Ever heard of 'the exception that proves the rule'? Basic point: racism still exists, and slavery and lynching really *sucked*. End of story. Danielle (who also has some issues with feminist historians who argue for that pre-industrial revolution equality thing - hey, women were still technically *chattel*, you know)
Right on RR! It would be amusing if it wasn't so terribly PATHETIC that someone (Princess) who keeps saying 'they should move on, move on, get over it' really has a deep bitterness caused by losing out on being the drum major or whatever. That's pretty damn petty compared to not getting a job, or a loan for a house, or your ass kicked, or killed because of the color of your skin. For someone who says there are no victims, that people make their own fate, you sure make yourself out (or try to) as a victim. 'Boo-hoo, I didn't get to twirl the baton at the big game.' And RR is right on again when he points out that you wouldn't have missed out on your college of choice if you weren't worse than the worst white person. And the fact you're a female (which also goes toward minority numbers) apparently didn't help you, which means you were even a rung lower than that. You're probably lucky you got into UH. You are unbelievable.
HayesStreet-I graduated in the TOP 1% of my high school class. Yeah, number 5 out of about 700! Don't tell me I'm lucky to get into UH. I'm a junior already and I've only been here 3 semesters and on the dean's list. Reread some of those posts agains before you try to tell me how stupid I am. And dimsie, you haven't graded any of my papers. I AP'ed out of US History and don't have to take any more hours. And I'll be sure as hell to not get someone like you as my TA if I ever do take a History class here. My information is coming from Human Situation professors (one in particular who isn't here anymore because she's teaching at a better university and is an American History Professor), my roommate, who was in that class with me and remembers. And it's also from Political Sciencists. See dimsie, they already HAVE PhD's. And I'm not going to name any names, because with the mentality of the people on this board, you'll probably go lynch them all. Once again, everyone is overlooking the fact that I DO think it was bad (infact horrible) and I DO know why you're bitter. It doesn't change anything though. Lynus called...gotta go.
Yeah, I was wanting to know who the profs were so I could go lynch them. If you're too afraid to name names here, then send me an e-mail through the BBS because I would like to know who these people are...
Uh, well, I read your posts...that's why I pointed out how stupid you are... Frankly, from what I've read from you I really am suprised you're not at a junior college (not that there's anything wrong with that) rather than a junior in college. Your writing and anaytical skills are about that level. You're not going to name names because you are attaching statements to them they never made. If they were and they came to light, they probably wouldn't be teaching there for long (which would explain the professor who 'left'). I was in the political science department at UH and I never heard anything REMOTELY close to that. If they did say that, then all the alums on this board want to know who. Personally I'd like to write a nice letter as an alum to these particular prof's expressing my amazement at how students are representing what they hear in class. More than likely you were too busy chewing gum and twirling your baton under the desk, and you missed what they actually were talking about. Of course, I could be wrong. Does anyone know if David Duke was a guest lecturer for a semester out of the last 3? When/if you mature a little, and if you ever MAKE it to graduate school, you'll learn that little letters after your name don't make you smart. A Phd is just like an MD or a JD or any other graduate degree, and some of them are brilliant, and some of them couldn't do anything but teach (the 'those who can't do, teach' mold). But aside from that, if one compared dimsie's post to yours, there would be little doubt who is potential Phd material, and who isn't.
heeheehee I guess people should be careful what they wish for because white students sued against affirmative action in admissions and won but then the state legislature passed the 10% rule. LOL Texas House Bill 588 Sec. 51.803. AUTOMATIC ADMISSION: ALL INSTITUTIONS. (a) Each general academic teaching institution shall admit an applicant for admission to the institution as an undergraduate student if the applicant graduated in one of the two school years preceding the academic year for which the applicant is applying for admission from a public or private high school in this state accredited by a generally recognized accrediting organization with a grade point average in the top 10 percent of the student's high school graduating class. To qualify for admission under this section, an applicant must submit an application before the expiration of any application filing deadline established by the institution. From what I've read from the Attorney General's interpretation this law also applies to private colleges in the state of Texas. Maybe you should move to another state Princess then you could just face the regular affirmative action system and probably get into whatever college you want.
Thus spake Princess: "And dimsie, you haven't graded any of my papers. I AP'ed out of US History and don't have to take any more hours." How upsetting for us all, to be sure. "And I'll be sure as hell to not get someone like you as my TA if I ever do take a History class here." I think you'll find that there are a lot of TAs like me - grad students who politely ask for actual evidence to back up ludicrous generalisations. We're terribly inconvenient, aren't we? "My information is coming from Human Situation professors (one in particular who isn't here anymore because she's teaching at a better university and is an American History Professor)," So your evidence for your assertions comes from *one* professor who *mentioned it in passing* in a *human situations* class. That's a far cry from the vast legions of professors devoting weeks of class time to their alternative research on lynching and slavery to whom you initially referred. Care to retrench any further? You may end up agreeing with me if you're not careful. "See dimsie, they already HAVE PhD's." [sigh] What are you, four years old? I mentioned being in the Ph.D. programme to prove that I knew the history professors personally and had listened to many of them lecture on these subjects - not to prove my academic credentials. I already know that an MA, as you're not-so-subtly implying, isn't squat. (Why do you think I'm still in school? ) Btw, the drum majorette discrimination story made you look a bit silly. IMO. Danielle
No, the reason I won't name name's is because there is no reason to. I don't care if you want to know or not. The reason one left was because she went to an IVY league school to teach instead. Get your facts straight and quit putting words into my mouth. From your entries, I'd say you're pretty good at making up bull ****! And y'all are blowing what I said WAY out of proportion. But I wouldn't expect anyone to actually think that. You're all too obsessed with what I said. If you believe that strongly in your arguments, then why does it matter what I believe or not? I'm not hurting anyone, and I don't hate anyone. And I don't chew gum, I've NEVER twirled a baton, and I DO pay attention during class. You don't get good grades by not. But I guess you would know about that. If you HAD been paying attention in your classes, maybe you would have heard something different. But just as you have demonstrated on this board, you are so unwilling to listen to anything you don't agree with. And you do have to have a certain amount of intelligence to get an advanced degree and a certain work ethic. In my defense, I don't do my best writing on here. Part of it is because I'm thinking at about 90 miles/second. You all hit me with so much information at once, it's difficult to process it all. I'm trying to get back to you quickly instead of writing eloquently. Sorry if that's not good enough for you. This isn't english class.
The story was not to ask for sympathy or compare it to slavery. I don't care if you don't like it, but reverse discrimination does exist. That was the only point. I do know what it means to be discriminated against, even if only in a minor way. As I said in my other posts, which no one probably read, but they'll quote from, it's okay to be bitter, and to not fogive and to not forget. But you still move on with your life and do the best you can. I didn't let any discrimination stop me from succeeding. That was the only point. You're just all out to get me now, no matter what I say. So if someone wants to have an intelligent discussion about this, great. If it's going to be name calling and stupid, then I have better things to do.
Princess, It is admirable or stupid (depending on how you look at it) that you don't want to give up the ghost, but you should have moved on a long time ago. So, you told everyone here how you feel about racism, slavery, etc. and for the most part, 99% of them disagreed with you. Hey that's great, but instead of moving on to something else, you just have to keep on keeping on. I guess I could understand for a little bit because I can be stubborn on this BBS, but dammit girl, you are way beyond stubborn even past DREAMer stubborn. Post about something else like music, Lynus, your favorite food, your favorite body part, why the sky is blue, hell, anything but this controversial subject . It's like you are some pavlovian dog....you just have to respond . I bet you right now that you can't stop posting in this thread or any of the others where you have been hammered at ad nauseam. I guess it's fun to see you getting hammered in sort of a sick kind of way, but if this was a boxing match, you would be dead by now. Also, can you not summarize your response in one post than a bunch of different individual posts? I know all about that posting trick in order to build the old post count up...one of the oldest in the book. Take it from someone who's been there before....it is great to have attention from this place because you definitely have it, but it does get old after a while and doesn't help you in the future to be taken seriously here. What you are doing is ruining any chances you have to salvage something here. Maybe stop posting, but if you can't at least don't post things that are powder kegs around here and know when to raise the white flag.
There are probably more than I like on this board that would agree with you! But thank you just the same. Right. She went Hahhhhhhh-vahhhhd no doubt. As if that matters. If she said the ridiculous 'facts' you've regurgitated she's either completely incompetant or has a specific agenda which doesn't include the truth. You don't deal in facts. You deal in unverifiable jibberish.
You know, I tried and tried not to click on this thread because I knew what would be going on inside it, but call it some morbid curiosity The Creator cursed me with - I had to click it. treeman, I have nothing but respect for you and your knowledge of the military, the Middle East, etc. Although you're one gung-ho mo fo, I still think I'd get along with you in real life. You are so knowledgable on the subject of war, the ME, etc. that I looked forward to many of your posts simply for the educational value. This coming from a person that abhors war. This is why I'm somewhat disappointed in your defense of princess - at least in the manner you attempted to defend her. You say that it's just a bunch of PC people trying to jump on a little white girl in these threads. That couldn't be further from the truth. I think what you're seeing is a herd of people armed with facts that originally wanted to have a discussion but kept constantly being met by anectodal stories that may or may not have happened and said stories being placed upon a pedestal as "the truth". The whole "females being run off" thing is a crock, and deep down I think you know it. Any female that can back up their statements with fact can hang around here. Most of these guys couldn't care less if they were a woman or not. There have been several guys that have come in here as trolls and otherwise that were completely attacked for outlandish statements they could not back up. Trust me, it ain't a "woman thing", it ain't a "PC thing", etc. It may have started out being a PC/common courtesy type argument in other threads, but it has now turned into a ass-ripping in which princess has decided to portray an image of "I'm right, and I don't have to prove it". It's this I think, moreso, than her opinion that has people irked. You don't come into the BBS Forum and try to debate carrying a gun with no bullets. I can tell she's your friend and you're defending her as such, but if you isolate her arguments and supporting facts, you'll find she's not really bringing anything but childish banter into this discussion. But that's cool. We all have our own views as to what's going on here and I still look forward to your postings in the future. princess, I gave up on attempting to respond to anything you said in relation to this topic in a previous thread. I'm not going to call you a racist, but you obviously do have some frustrations about what non-whites may or may not have caused you in the past. But then that's just my opinion. You state, I think this is basically you curling up into the fetal position and wailing. You've rarely come with anything more than anectodal stories and rarely anything quantifiable in these discussions. You really can't have this "intelligent discussion" you search for unless you come prepared with facts. Simply saying, "my teacher said", "several profs said", etc. won't cut it. You hide behind this facade of knowledge that you obviously don't have. It's too obvious... you present an opinion and stand behind it. Once blasted with fact after fact, you hide behind anecdotal "evidence" such as "my professors said", "i had a drum majorette position taken from me", etc. At this point you know you have nothing to defend yourself with other than these supposed stories. That just won't cut it. When you say "he said, she said" be prepared to identify who "he" and "she" are. You have yet to do so. Pardon me if I think your "facts" are a complete farce in this and other threads if you can't back them up. The other thing I notice about your thread is how defensive you get about intelligence. You think that taking AP tests, placing out of classes, and being in the Honors program really means anything. It doesn't. It doesn't necessarily make you smart; it doesn't necessarily make you stupid. The foolishness is using these 3rd grade antics to justify your opinion as being fact. There are people in this thread that are far far smarter than you and have quite frankly slapped you around. Yet they did it using factual evidence and asking questions you seem to not be able to answer. You come firing with nothing but anecdotal evidence and as I said, rarely anything substantive, and then you have the nerve to say you're looking for an intelligent conversation? Come on. It's one thing to have enough knowledge to place out of classes. It's another entirely to process that information and learn to adjust when either you or the information is proven wrong. All the AP tests in the world won't help you function in society if your only defense is "but he said" or "but I placed out of ... " In the real world, nobody cares... next time bring bullets when you're entering a battle to defend your opinion. Anyway, I'll leave you to your utter humiliation not by their hands, but by your own... n'joy. The bookful blockhead, ignorantly read, with loads of learned lumber in his head. - Alexander Pope
Hi, Danielle, Do you enjoy grading papers? Do you find that they often make you question the purpose of human life and the true origins of evil, or is that just me? Princess, You are a strange person(at least on this bbs). Not for any of this race stuff, either. Seriously, is this an act? Are you really heypartner/crispee reincarnated? Maybe Bob Rainey? Anyway, everybody in this thread and the offshoots needs to just stop posting. Only then can salvation and enlightenment occur. Let's turn this into a thread about Donna Haraway's "A Manifesto for Cyborgs." Who is with me?
Hi, Rimbaud: Um. I find that they make me question the purpose of *my* life, specifically. To be honest, I don't really enjoy it that much. I try to be conscientious and helpful, but since the courses I TA in are required and 99% of the students don't give a rat's ass about history, it's more discouraging than fulfilling. I'm not cut out to be a teacher, probably. Wow, that's a depressing paragraph when you write it down and reread it. What do you grade? Oh, and a word of warning: watch out for this guy called Verlaine. Especially if he has a gun on him.
Danielle, Verlaine is too busy arguing with his wife about his "experimentations." Me? I grade art history classwork. Much of my pain comes from the freshman survey classes - similar to your experience with required history classes, however, the "upper level" class papers can be equally frustrating. It is bad when I am already jaded and don't even have a masters yet, isn't it? Only 3-10 years until I can look for a job and then grade papers full time! If you are not cut out for teaching, what will you do with a PhD in history? Don't you love questions like that? What is your area, by the way?
