Princess: Americans are fond of quoting Patrick Henry's famous "Give me liberty, or give me death" speech. Perhaps lack of control over one's own person is the worst fate... worse, even, than merely physical harm. Slaves were born, they worked, were rewarded little, and they died. Few of them ever filled any potential. Many were bred like chattels. Most weren't allowed to love in a romantic sense. To me, that sounds like hell. How is this relevant? The fact that black people were culpable for the condition of some slaves has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that slavery is ethically repugant.
It's relevent because I know more black racists than white racists. And they feel justified because white people oppressed them and kept them from having lives. My point is that it wasn't all white men's fault. Black people sold black people. That was the beginning of the slave trade. And Americans weren't the first people to use slaves either. I have NEVER said it wasn't bad or ethically correct. For the small number of black people who are looking for someone to blame, I think they need to look past Americans. Women were born, rewarded little, and then died. Many did not get to love in a romantic sense, since they were bought. Many women filled any potential. many women were bred like cattle. What's your point? ROXRAN-good point. unfortunately, some people make that very hard to do.
Princess: This thread has gone WAY beyond my ability to respond. You keep right on believing slavery really wasn't all that bad. If you know more black racists than white one's, that's a shame. However, all of your arguments are based on a very small set of circumstances, your own. You don't really have all the facts so you argue vehemently using your personal experience and obvious resentment towards people for sleights in your past. Not only is your reasoning subjective, but your conclusions are based more on feelings than on facts. I realized with the last few posts that there is no way that I'll ever be able to discuss this with you on a rational level because your feelings are clouding your judgement. You are so convinced that you know what racism is and that your definition is the only legitimate one, it has become pointless to discuss it any further. See you in some other thread.
Princess you're a racist in prejudiced robes. Everything that you've brought up to deter from the significance and scope of slavery and racism is the same thing that hate groups spew to tie into angry white folks just like yourself.
No, such does not reflect on the condition of slavery itself. Such would only be relevent if we were debating culpability.
Jeff, I am trying to be rational. And I didn't say it wasn't bad. You're just failing to see that it wasn't "as terrible as depicted." It's about a point. I don't know everything, but I know a lot. And I know you know a lot too. I have seen your point and what you are saying before. I don't feel that anyone has seen my point and refuses to see it. I only have 2 failures in my life that I blame other people for. But I was using this simply to point out that I knew racism too. Yes, these are my feelings, but we have been discussing racism and I was told that something racist hurts people. So I think feelings are totally revelant. I have been using facts to back up my feelings though. I'm trying to show an unpopular opinion, no fact, that most people ignore. I would like to continue to discuss this if we can do it in a better mannar. And Timing, you can think what you want about me, but then you're as prejudiced and racist as you claim I am. You don't know me, my life, or my beliefs. What white men did to slaves was bad. And I don't hate blacks or hispanics or anyone else. If there is someone I hate, it's because of their ignorance and stupidity. Anything that I have brought up here, I didn't learn from hate groups. It came from college courses, professors and books. I think slavery was terrible, but unless you were a white male in America, that whole time period was kind of bad. You're refusing to see anything else in me. And I'm sorry for that. havem-you are right. But I do feel that part of racism towards white people comes from slavery. And since someone accused me of not knowing what racism was because I'm white, it has become an issue.
Just because something is 'popular' doesn't mean its wrong, and just because you believe something that is 'unpopular', it doesn't make it right. I don't know why I go into threads like these. I tend to believe that when someone has something planted into their heads that deal more with emotion than rationalization, it's hard to get them to see otherwise. And yet I still try. Like Jeff, I'll have to say 'see you in some other thread', Princess. No offense, I'm sure you are a nice person, but anyone who even uses the 'slavery was exaggerated' angle will never understand the other side. There are so many double standards you are referring to, it's hard to keep discussing each one. You yourself say you are a victim of racism, and its clearly had an incredible impact on your opinions and thoughts, yet you feel people are too quick to point to racism itself. I'll say only this. There are ways to make your point without including race. This cartoon is a perfect example. And if you feel it necessary to include race, its for a reason. Take care.
Originally posted by Princess And Timing, you can think what you want about me, but then you're as prejudiced and racist as you claim I am. You don't know me, my life, or my beliefs. What white men did to slaves was bad. And I don't hate blacks or hispanics or anyone else. If there is someone I hate, it's because of their ignorance and stupidity. Anything that I have brought up here, I didn't learn from hate groups. It came from college courses, professors and books. I think slavery was terrible, but unless you were a white male in America, that whole time period was kind of bad. You're refusing to see anything else in me. And I'm sorry for that. LOL *sarcasm alert* Of course I'm a racist, how it could be any other way? Everyone knows that I hate whitey with a passion. In fact I'm the treasurer and vice president of the Hate Whitey Association. We meet every tuesday and thursday at Denny's which used to be a problem because they wouldn't let my black brothers and sisters come and sit with us but we sued those bastards and now our meetings are great. Farrahkan and I were just pondering the other day how we could form a PAC to lobby the Texas Board of Education to put more exaggerated slavery stuff in textbooks. We LOVE doing that ****! It's all part of our master plan to TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!!! YES!!! And let me correct you, slavery wasn't bad, it wasn't very bad, and it wasn't terrible. Slavery is and was one of the most horrific and disgusting crimes in the history of mankind. So while you're trying to claim it's exagerrated why don't you provide some specific examples of that like you've failed to do with what you claimed to be the "truth" with the races and language abilities of airline security people. And I SERIOUSLY doubt any professors have been teaching you that minorities other than Jews make themselves victims and slavery has been exaggerated.
Now I know why there are no women on this board. They get chased off... Not a single one of you has actually tried to understand/listen to what Princess has said. You've taken everything out of context, and formed an opinion of a little white girl who don't like black people. Jumping to conclusions... We all do that from time to time, but sometimes it's not deserved. And many of you have just jumped on the wagon. Kicking a girl when she's down. My level of respect for some posters continues to plummet. But I still feel the love.
What the hell does Princess being a female have to do with this? If any male poster made posts like hers, they'd get flamed too, spare us the "Now I know why there are no women on this board" crap... If Princess can't handle it, then she shouldn't be getting involved in these debates. If she can handle it, then I don't see how she's getting "chased off"...
I'm not trying to jump somebody elses train here...but from what I just read, that's certainly how she comes across.....aaand she keeps on digging....that remark about slavery not really being that bad .....wow You can't really think that
Well, let's just say that not everyone tows the PC line... And the PC police have come out to roost on this one. I've read her posts here, and she hasn't said anything racist that I've seen. Is she trying to suck up and not offend anyone? Clearly not. Is she proclaiming her white pride and hatred for minorities? Clearly not. Is she expressing her opinions? Clearly. And they don't seem racist, they just offend some people who are easily offended. Her main arguments are, from what I can tell: 1) Slavery was not as bad as we have been taught. In actual practice for many slaves, it was not, so that is actually probably a true statement. But the PC line is that it was bad for everyone, never mind that many slaves lived better than free men. Is it going to get anyone any brownie points for pointing that out? No. Is it taught in most schools today? No. Facts are ommitted for myth and propaganda in many curricula today - one reason I never completely trust anything college students have to say. 2) A culture of victimization has developed in the black community. This is one I certainly agree with; people like Sharpton and Jesse reinforce it day after day, and the result will only be more conflict. Until that stops, the black community will be unable to realize its full potential; it will be hamstrung by its own leaders. And by its focus on the past. There may be more, but I'm tired, and don't feel like posting anymore... Those Indian carrier posts really take it out of you. Until tomorrow...
I think most people have been working very hard to educate Princess in a civil as manner as possible. Many have said "see you next time" instead of further railling on her more. I don't think this is because she is a women, but because she is a newby, young, and by in large isn't purposely being inflammatory or getting personal-- although at times she admits she has chose to be extra polar to try to make a point. Some of the posts (not just by her) have justed showed a shockingly extreme, generalized (glossy) and unbalanced view about one of the critical issues for humanity-racism. To react and try to educate ISN'T BEING PC, it is trying to instill humanity, humility and people better understanding the conditions and barriers facing others that so often gets blurred by rhetoric and gross generalizations from a few negative experiences with other groups they may have unknowlingly contributed to. Also Princess, I hope you don't leave the BBS because of any of this. It is a great way to get different points of view and learn new things.
I would be interested to find out who these professors (is it at UH?) are that Princess seems to refer to when she makes these 'lynchings were exaggerated/racism is overblown' claims. Did you mention their names in prior posts? Please fill us in. Although I remember some hard nuts like (was it) Lence or Lutz (???) saying stuff like 'if we had all of Aristotle's writings we'd have every problem solved' and other off the wall declarations, but its hard to believe they're openly minimizing slavery and racism. Qualify please.
I think we are familiar with different educational standards. In academia, anything that can be disputed, is. And if something's taken as "undisputed," then the evidence for it is pretty damned good. IMO, princess is misquoting her professors. Perhaps at UH, they're different... but I seldom here anybody make such unqualified statements about issues that are not resolved, except for rhetorical purposes during debates (or on theoretical issues). Yes, but this isn't relevant . It's another we're-not-culpable-for-the-state-of-the-black-race argument. And whether it's true or not (like most things, partly so), it's meaningless to the inherent issue of slavery itself.
My professors have mentioned it in the lectures, but no specifics were given. It was given as part of a timeline leading to something else. The classes were not about blacks or racism. They were about politics and history. Personally, I think that if I did have the numbers it wouldn't matter to any of you. You'd think I was making them up or that the government was lying about the numbers so it didn't look as bad (because slavery is already a huge black mark on them).
Again I'd ask who these professors are at UH. I would be most suprised to learn these are the 'facts' they wanted taken from their lectures.
I too would like to know who these Profs are since I'm currently attending UH...and am involved in the Honors College...
Likewise. I went to UH and was in the Honors College. My sister's currently in the Honors College. I knew alot of the Human Situation professors well. I can't imagine any of the ones I know saying things like that. And none of them was any sort of expert on slavery or racism - in fact, most were political science and English profs.
