What do I care what you as a white person intend to mean with comments that I find racist? I will not validate racism based on ignorant intent. You want to claim that at a predominantly white university, a cartoon stereotypically depicting blacks speaking poor English was really simply about airport security and education. Why weren't the characters white then? You want to only associate the term racism with dragging deaths. Minorities make themselves victims. (that's a good one by the way) You're beginning to sound like Pat Buchanan. I happen to be hispanic but I'm very light skinned unlike my dad who gets racist crap all the time. No one would know me to be hispanic unless I told them so I get to listen to all the racist comments from white people without them knowing who they're talking to. You wouldn't believe the kinds of things I hear... well some of you would.
Discriminatory. As in, when one discriminates. Which includes when one makes a "spurious distinction" to use my terminology. One "discriminates" when one says that the Outback Steakhouse is better than McDonalds. It's when the distinction is "spurious" that the issue is problematic. It's just a simple matter of language.
Prejudice, by definition, is based on ignorance, not racism. You can find it racist if you want to, but it's not and you'd be just as ignorant by refusing to acknowledge the difference. The character weren't white because airport security workers are generally depicted as uneducated black people. That's the truth. And if you read what I said, I never said they all make themselves victims, but a few of them do. And white people, as I've said before, are not the only people who are racist. Some of the worst racists I've ever known are black.
Racism is based on the ignorant belief that other races are inferior to yours. Big whoop! I love how you want to get into the semantics of what is racist and how you want to dress it all up to make yourself feel better. You're not a racist, you're just prejudiced. Wow... great, congratulations. Considering racial prejudice is born out of racism, I don't think your claim is too much to be proud of. Care to substantiate your truth? I'd like to see your statistics on the % of airline security workers being uneducated blacks who speak poor English. More importantly to what you think, where is the cartoonist's evidence supporting your unsubstantiated generalization? What kind of research did he do in regards to his cartoon if you really think this cartoon is about airline security? Did he even go to an airport? I went to Intercontinental about 3 weeks ago and all but one of the airport workers I encountered was white. I guess that makes me more qualified to draw a cartoon about airline security depicting poor whites with tattoos and crew cuts speaking poor English. And I know exactly what you said, because it's right there in print. The Jews were oppressed for years. And they have overcome it and made great things. I have Jewish friends and went to dinner at their house over the winter break. And they have prayers that reflect on their oppression and how many advances they have made since then. The oppression made them stronger and they should be grateful to be strong. (I probably didn't get that all right, so if anyone is Jewish, don't be offended. And if I'm WAY off base, please correct me). Why do other minorities make themselves victims? There it is right there, why do other minorities make themselves victims. Oppression made Jews stronger, they should be grateful for being strong... should they be grateful for being oppressed?
NO, I am not getting into the semantics of it for my benefit or to make myself feel better. I think people in general need to take a step back before opening their mouths and calling something or someone racist before evaluting the situation to it's full extent. And yes, I am prejudiced. Humans by nature are prejudiced. I know I am prejudiced and I will tell anyone who wants to know. I will not tolerate, however, someone calling me a racist who has no knowledge of me, my life, my family, or my beliefs. And I don't have any statistics on the number of uneducated black people working airport security. I did suggest, as did several other people, that it should be looked into. As far as you knowing what I said because it's in print, you're only reading and absorbing what you want to hear. And I never said that Jews don't make themselves victims. And I never said that all other minorities do make themselves viticms. Its a small group of people. But I guess you chose not to read that part. I have known many many Jews and they don't cry out for affrimative action. They don't demand that they have their own fraternity or sorority (to my knowledge-please correct me if I am wrong). Women in America were oppressed much longer than black people. Black men got the right to vote long before any woman did. I could sit here and b**** and feel sorry for myself because women were considered property, but I don't. I was not oppressed, nor was my mother or her mother. But her mother was. That's just 3 generations ago that women were still oppressed. My grandmother didn't go to college. Women didn't do that. But that didn't stop me. I wasn't hindered by that. There are some people, of any race or sex, that play the victim. Their lot on life is because of someone else. This cartoon was not about oppression or slamming all black people. It was still a comment about education and airport security. I'll go find stats if that's what you want. But go make a fuss of everyone else who made the same joke first because the artist in the Batallion was not the first to make that connection.
Oh how I miss the days of lynching women, not allowing them to eat with men, dragging them behind trucks, forcing them to work in the fields from sunrise to sundown. Good times.
For yours and anyone's information, women did not have it much better than slaves. They were often raped and beat. There were times they could not eat with men. Women had no freedoms or liberties. They cooked and cleaned all day, cared for the kids, and had to give into their husband's every whim. They were considered second class citizens based on their sex just as slaves were based on their race. And if you want to get down to it, not all slaves were treated poorly. It was actually the norm that people treated them humanely. Slaves helped with meals and childcare. The families had good relationships with them. Many men even let their slaves go when they passed away. The horrible beatings and lynchings were not the norm. And this is coming from historians and political scientists with doctorates. Most of the horrible things that black people endured came in the 1900's, after they were free. I know that doesn't make it any better, but it's true. I know anyone can find cases that go against what I just said. But like I said, this is coming from my professors.
Interesting topic in itself. I had a professor, Mary Kowaleski-Wallace (if you want to look her up), who argued fairly persuasively that severe discrimination against women was only truly rampant from the time of the industrial revolution until... very recently. Her argument (and I believe many feminists argue this) was that before the industrial revolution, man and women played different but equally significant roles in society. While such roles are not equivalent with our current understanding of social equality, households could be matriarchal (or at least equal) simply by virtue of a woman's monopoly over household power. The industrial revolution, however, supplied unbelievable wealth. It soon became a status symbol for a woman to "stay at home." This led to the disenfranchisement of women that you see in Evelina or Sense & Sensibility. The stereotype of women being repressed for ages may or may not be true. But it's definitely more complicated than saying "until the 20th century, women were kept barefoot and pregnant and were routinely beaten."
Yes, women did control the household and it was equal work to a man's job (and it still is-housewives don't get nearly enough credit). But that does not mean they were treaded as equals or that they weren't oppressed.
And if you want to get down to it, not all housewives were treated poorly. It was actually the norm that people treated them humanely. Housewives helped with meals and childcare. The families had good relationships with them. Many men even let their wives go when they passed away. The horrible beatings and lynchings were not the norm. And this is coming from historians and political scientists with doctorates.
How clever! Too bad I didn't make any of those accusations. My point was that all slaves did not have it as bad as was previously thought. My other point was women had it just as bad in many many cases. I just finished a course on women and politics, so please don't question my knowledge on the subject. Women were abused and oppresed much like slaves were.
This just really startles me that you would think that slaves didn't have it that bad. I guess the fact human beings were captured like animals, shoved on top of each other in the bottom of leaky ships where many died, brought to a new country where their humanity was sold to another human (while, quite often the rest of their family was either killed or sold off to someone else) and forced to do the bidding of someone for free really wasn't all that bad after all. No one doubt that women had it bad but to suggest that slaves were not treated as badly as we all thought is like saying, "Well, if you're gonna get raped, you may as well lay back and enjoy it." It worked so well for Clayton Williams.
Actually, it's when a "house wife" ceases to be active that she truly becomes repressed. One often thinks of the woman who stays home as being the inferior partner... slaving for her husband. But conversely, is he not also working for her? One could say that the person in charge of the home is more important than the person who leaves to work. Oddly enough, I've heard it said that the most disenfranchied women were upper class women. It was considered unacceptable for them to take care of their children, do any house work, or manage accounts. Fanny Burney's Evelina gives us a good account of this: women doing anything other than being idle is considered uncouth. Such is the fullest form of repression: uselessness. The coming of the "New Domestic Woman" as feminists put it... the woman that takes care of her children and manages domestic accounts... can be considered the first embodiment of modern feminism, or so Tracy Armstrong argues. I find this interesting, but I don't want to offend anyone since I'm doubly ignorant of the topic, being: 1. male and 2. knowing just enough to be familiar with the subject, but not enough to give it a good voice.
Jeff, you bring up a cood point. But most of the slaves who came here were sold by Africans and put on those terrible ships by Africans. But still many blame the white man for the slave trade. I know this thread is not about reparations, but if they want reparations, shouldn't they get them from the people who sold them in the first place? And yes, they still had it bad over here, but the stories of violence and death and complete mistreatment stand out more than what the norm actually was. There was not as much violence as once thought. It's true. The majority of slaves were thought on the same (or slightly lower) level as women and children. I never said they didn't have it "that bad" but they were not all mauled and raped and beat to the extent to what most people think. Many white men cared very much about their slaves. If not as people, but as property and an investment. Slaves provided good work and men didn't want their work to suffer. Yes it was bad. Slavery is the black mark upon America. But what they teach you in elementary school about everyone was treated like dirt is simply just not true. There are countless books out there on this subject. Much of the mistreatment came after slavery ended. Haven, you are correct too. Being a housewife is a truly difficult and demanding job. But the wealthy women do have a harder time. Most of the alcoholic, unhappy wives are the ones who have nothing to do. But there was a time in America when women were property. Fathers were given gifts (like payment) for his daughter's hand in marriage. And children were property too. And slaves were property too. And women were treated badly. There are also many books on this subject. I'm not trying to draw a direct comparison between being a slave and being a women. But there are some similarities. And Mrs.JB, when you have something to say to me, please say it. I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't appreciate someone twisting my words. Come up with your own please.
I speak in past tense. The book which illustrated the situation, Evelina, was published in the mid 18th century . Nobody's arguing otherwise, of course. About 1700- 1900 probably constituted the worst times for women, ever.
Golly gee, Princess, now that you put it that way, I guess it really wasn't that bad after all. Silly black people. When will they ever learn? By the way, when you post here, your comments are fair game. Anyone can use the posts to their advantage or disadvantage. It is part of this board and the way things work. Plenty of people have used my words against me and I've done the same. So, if you don't your words twisted, don't post 'em.
Jeff, I know comments are fair game, but it would be nice if some people could be more creative. The only time Mrs.JB ever says something to me, she just copies what I say. It's annoying more than anything. I don't think any less of the points she's making though. I'm not even saying she's annoying. I would just like to hear something original once and a while. That's all. No harm intended. And I'm not trying to make light of the situation. But slavery got blown way out of proportion. Yes, it was horrible and tragic. And many had it bad. But history has exaggerated it a lot. But I know it's not the case for all. Slavery was bad, and I cannot even imagine how I would feel as someone's property and had no life or decisions of my own (but I would know if I had been a alive 150 years ago, since women were treated similarly). In some cases, if more people knew the truth about slavery (that history exaggerated it) it wouldn't fit well into the books. It makes the white man a good and easy enemy. Why doesn't anyone point out the fact (like I did) that black people were sold by OTHER black people? All I said was that slavery was no AS BAD as it is usually taught. The picture of a black slave with whip marks all over his back is not the norm. Yes, it happened to some people, but it was not the norm. That's what I'm saying and that's what I'm asking you to recognize. I know that this is a topic that many people feel very strongly about, so I can't expect you to take what I say to heart or to even acknowledge that I might be a little bit right. But I am telling the truth, like it or not.
People just need to treat others how they would want to be treated... Unfortunately, people in general are vaguely evil and hethonistic opportunitists. History shows this to be true regardless of any particulars.
