Jay, what would we have done if we did not have the injuries and Toronto did not make the playoffs? In other words we would only have a pick around 19-20. We have to find a post game and I believe it can come from within. KT, playing SF, should be able to post; EG is supposed to comeback with some post moves; MoT has post moves; and Rice has post moves. I am hoping that Rice is shifted to the backcourt, behind Mobes. Also if it were up to me Tmo would have to come back with low post moves. It is not the best but these people are going to get more touches that way than any rookie, next year. While it is not the best, I am sure NJ, Magic and the Bucks which they had that much.
WRT Stoudamire, 18 years old, 6'10", 240 lbs. Any guesses what those numbers will be when he 25? Any guesses what the Dreams numbers were when he got drafted? To say Stoudamire can not play center since he is too small is just plain silly. (Dream was 6'10", ~245 lbs when drafted). He like Dream will get used by the stronger 5s until he fills out. But when he reaches the prime of his career, he should be fine weight/strength wise. Stoudamire has absolutely sick upside. Sure, there is a possibility that he won't reach his potential (Rudy and CD would certaily get fired if he does not come close.) If Stoudamire had a solid 10' J, he is the first pick in this draft. The question is whether, he develop a NBA low block game. I wouldn't bet against him. The Rocks would be lucky to draft him.
If we can't land Ming (and I won't hold my breath), we could do worse than drafting Amare Stoudemire at #5/6/7. He will be a stud, methinks. I would prefer someone less young, if simply because I'm tired of waiting for these players to develop, but really, Stoudemire can grow into the 5 spot (weight, experience). This team simply needs good health to contend. Good health, and someone in the post. Amare might hack it as a backup for a couple years then step into the starter role. As far as KT being a talented but nicely-inexpensive player, that day will soon end. He can receive an extension next year. Think of the nightmares this team has with agents. KT's agent will say (rightly so), "My client gets the same or better stats as a starter than Maurice Taylor; we just want what's fair." Then this will bring up the question of playing time, a big problem for this team when healthy (i.e., not this year). KT deserves to start. Ditto Mo. Something might have to give. As much as I like KT, I'd sacrifice him if necessary, if only because he's one of our hold-the-ball isolation players, which we already have in abundance, and, like I said, he might become unaffordable. Can we satisfy our Memphis debt with the Toronto pick? Because if no deals can be made otherwise, Stoudemire or Wilcox with our own pick might be the way to go, and hand over the other pick. I'll still dream up a way to get Ming on the Rockets (where's Hottoddie to help with those 3-way team trades?)
DearRock, to be honest I haven't given it a whole lot of thought. Seeing as I've only been able to watch 1 Rockets game all season I'm not familiar enough with a lot of the players to make credible judgements about them. I don't know what kind of post game MoT has. I haven't seen Kenny play in the post. I'm also not really a follower of the NBA but a huge College Basketball Fan. So I'm no good at picking trades or throwing out specific names of who to get. Assuming we only had Toronto's pick which would be at the 14 not the 19-20. Here's how I'd see the offseason progressing. Griffin would absolutely need to work on strength training and post development. But that's a given for any situation. If we could package a player and the 14 for a solid interior player or to go up in the draft. Like I said I couldn't tell you who that would be though. If we could get Stoudemire at the 14 like NBAdraft.net says I'd jump at it. But I can't imagine he'd go that late. I think 7-10 is where he'd go, I think 5's too high and anything below 10 is to low. This actually becomes a much tougher scenario for myself because 14's a tough pick because it depends a lot on who's ahead of you and what kind of trades can be made. As for a straight out pick of number 14, I think Marcus would still be on the board and would be worth taking a chance on at that number. Who knows though draft day's a fickle thing and those ping pong balls can be screwy.
Brown and Chandler had MUCH more developed games coming out of HS. Brown has insane quickness and a halfway decent mid range shot, and Chandler has relied mainly on his insane athleticism/leaping ability, plus some foundation of a shot. Curry has excellent touch around the basket. What I'm saying is not that Amare won't be good-he certainly has all-star potential, but his size, while very good, isn't overbearing in the NBA (as I said, I don't consider him to be a center), and he hasn't shown development in his touch. All he's shown are some highlight reel dunks with no one guarding him, and a couple of decent defensive plays, but he was no Mutumbo. Comparing him to Cato doesn't help your point-Cato actually has better size from what I've seen (taller, longer arms) though the TV could be doing that. You're taking a chance he develops his potential, and basically plays a rich man's Cato role on this team? He is a HUGE risk to reach that potential (all HSers are), and how much better does he do that than Cato? He won't be better than Cato his rookie year, and if Cato keeps improving (he has a lot of untapped potential, too) maybe not by his 2nd or 3rd year. Look how long it has taken Bender and Harrington. He's just not worth the #5 pick to me. I'd rather trade the pick. If we really want a big man with size and athleticism, why not Melvin Ely? Remember another guy, all potential no polish-Jerome Moiso. 7'0'', 230, SICK athleticism. He's on like his 3rd or 4th team now in 2 years, playing 2 MPG, if that. Almost cut multiple times. He even had half-decent range to boot. Assuming a player will grow is way too risky. Sure, he may be blessed and grow 2 more inches, but plenty of people stop growing by the time they are 18, if not before. I'm with Jaybird-I'd certainly take him at 14 if he's there, but I doubt he would be. I'd even consider moving up from 14 using KT to get him. But not with #5. (FWIW, I'll keep away from Jeffries, Wilcox, and Gooden, too, just because they clearly don't fit our needs at all, IMO). I'm all for trying to shoot the moon, and go all out for Ming. DearRock-if you want a SF with post moves, Caron Butler. I really like his game a lot-very good shot (and he improved it significantly), NBA-ready strong, quick enough, smart player, good passer, pretty tough defender. He's got the ability to play post up like Rice in the NBA.
Roxtxia, The obligation to Memphis can be paid back this year if Toronto ends up with a top 15 pick. I read it in the Chronicle this morning, so hopefully they are right for once.
I'd love to un-crowd our roster by trading KT, our two picks for a higher pick and a future pick. BTW, some useful info: Chaney, Sprewell, and A. Houston are all fans of Wilcox.
NIKEstrad , I totally agree with you, except for the one highlight you must have missed from the McDonald's game. Stoudamire got the rebound, lead the break, forced the defensive to pick him up at the top of the key, passed to the wing, got the return pass from the wing, and without missing a step had a monster slam. As I watched the play as it happened and later the hightlight, I kept thinking that Stoudamire moved like a guard on the break. Completely f*cking sick. The question is if he will reach his potential, like you said. Whoever drafts him will be taking that bet and giving him 2-3 years to become an everyday NBA player. I do see Stoudamire becoming a NBA 5. The Dream at 6'10" and ~255 lbs won two rings, the second of which he played and bested Shaq at 7' and 300+ lbs. I am not saying that Stoudamire will be the next Dream, but that an athletic 6'10" at 250 lbs can be a top 5 center in the NBA. A healthy Rocket team this year would have won 45-50 games and made the playoffs, given what they did the year before. While this year was disastrous, our three rookies and KT gained valuable NBA experience which should give the Rockets more bench depth next year. The Rockets with a healthy MoTay (a big if offset by KT's emergence) and a somewhat healthy Rice plus the added bench depth should expect to win 45-50 games next year and get some playoff experience. Where I going with this is that the Rockets do not need an impact palyer next year with their top pick. This may be the year they should consider drafting potential over immediate need. Given that they have a high pick and the weakest roster spot is the 5, the Rockets should seriously consider drafting a 5 project with the highest upside. The player that fits that bill in this draft is Stoudamire.
I agree, if we can't get Ming or Woods, I hope our next choice is Stoudemire. Like the Dream, Alonzo Mourning is only 6-10 and 255 and he has had a nice career as well. All reports indicate Stoudemire has a Rolls Royce motor. I hope we grab him instead of going "safe."
I don't know how someone can say that when they didn't improve the personel. A healthy Rockets team would have been around .500 at best. They would have been no better than the Clipps, Jazz, or Sonics. How many games would the Clipps have won with a healthy Odom? What bout Denver with the 20-10 all star 4 man? What about a healthy Baker on the Sonics? The Rockets really overacheived last yr by feasting on the east, but they sucked against the west last yr just like this yr. To really think the Rockets could sweep a entire division and lose only 4 or 5 games against the atlantic and only win 45 games says a lot. Back to someone playing center. Playing center is not just size, its the mentality of the position. Any player 6'10 could be a center, but a lot of the players come up trying to be so versitile that they don't have the mental toughness to play the pivot. Just like someone said about Mourning and Dream playing center, you can look at guys like Rasheed Wallace and Kevin Garnett who could and should be centers. With their length and hops , if they added the muscle and mentality they could have revolutionized that position and we wouldn't be talking about a shortage of pivots. If they do draft Stoudemire and focus on him getting stronger, playing with his back to the basket, and setting the tone, he could play center. I mean the kid is 6'10 240 already so his frame and body could easily hold another 25-30lbs of mass and he still retain his leaping and quickness. Hakeem was 225 when he came into the league and in a matter of a summer or so he was 250-255 and was still just as quick. What I wouldn't want is for them to have him straddling the line like Griffin or trying to "pull" other centers out of the paint like Collier. You know how to pull Shaq or Dike out of the paint? You have a skilled player in the pivot who can and will draw fouls on them or make them work instead of just playing a area and letting the other guy shoot jumpers. The best way to pull centers out the lane is to get fouls on them and send them to the bench.
Ok,here's mine: 1.Chicago-Jason Williams I think they would take him over Ming just because they are in love with Chandler and Curry.Ok,Krause wants to play Chandler at 4,but there's still Curry,who is in my opinion better than Chandler,who get many mins at 5.I think CHI could be very good next year with that lineup: C-Chandler/Curry F-Fizer F-Rose G-Robinson G-Williams 2.Golden State-Yao Ming With Dampier at center they can't attack the west playoff spots.I think if Ming isn't be taken by Chicago,Golden State would draft him. 3.Memphis-DeJuan Wagner Ok,not sure there!Just because they have good players at every position!The only need is a C!I can't see Ming available with the third pick and I can't see Wilcox,Borchardt and Marcus are going that high!Perhaps they draft Wagner and then trade him for a C!Or he can stay with the team to backup th 1-3 position! 4.Nuggets-Qyntel Woods This is for sure!If Woods is available with the fourth they will defenitely take him!I think they have to acquire a 2,3 or 5 in the offseason or they are a lottery team next year again! 5.Cavs-Drew Gooden Not sure,there too!Mihm,Illgauskas and Doleac at C,Hill and Murray at PF,Jones and Davis at SF and don't forgot DeSagana Diop who is hoping to get a chance next season,i can't see much minutes for Gooden,but he's the best player with the 5th pick! 6.Rockets-Chris Wicox I see him in the future as a C!Could i tell more??? 7.Knicks-Borchardt Yes,they are going for some seize! 8.Hawks-Jared Jefries I think this is the stupid team who selects Jeffries! 9.Heat-Caron Butler 10.Suns-Chris Marcus Just because they haven't a good C 11.Wizards-Ely They need a big man,too 12.Clippers-Haislip Future backup for Brand and Olowokandi?? 13.Pacers-Rush Replace Miller???
Order of players drafted (roughly): Jason Williams. Yao Ming. DeJuan Wagner. Quintel Woods. Amare Stoudemire. Drew Gooden. Chris Wilcox. Caron Butler. Borchardt. Chris Marcus. Frank Williams. Kareem Rush. Marcus(?) Ely. Jared Jeffries. Dan Gadzuric. Look for big trades, though. Miami, Houston, Chicago, Cleveland, LAC, and Memphis in particular.
I see things a little different. First off, I know Rudy will try to trade our 5th pick for Odom or Lewis. He might target Al Harrington with both picks or even adding Kenny or Mooch. Harrington absoltely kills most teams and adding someone like him would solidify a playoff spot.I personably think he is untouchable, but if they miss the playoffs they might look for a high draft pick and use him a bait with his recent knee surgery and the latest development of Artest. Now, barring any trades with NBA players, Rudy will try to trade within the Draft unless he absolutely falls in love with one player. If Gooden slips to the 5th spot, I'm almost positive we'll grab him only to move him(since we don't need him or want him) down a few spots to grab Butler and possibly a future 1st or 2nd rounder, at the same time saving around a cool million. #5: If no trades can be made, then we'll most likely pick up Caron Butler. There's a glaring weakness at the 3 spot on our team that opposing teams like to exploit. Adding Butler not only gives us a "quality player" on the defensive end, but he loves attacking the basket and has a solid midrange game. He does everything well. Morris is a decent backup, Rice still leaves too many questions unanswered concerning his health, Walt IS an injury that will look to get the same $$$ elsewhere next season, and we can pretty much count Langhi out. Woods is still a possibility here if he slips, too. #14 I believe Rudy will go for the best available Center. I'm positive Marcus, Bourchardt, and Wilcox will be gone so Hailslip or Amare are a possibility here. Gadzurich is another possibility. ----- Now, if for some strange reason Caron has bad workouts or gets some criminal charges or something, it's a toss up between Wilcox and Chris Marcus. They would love to have both, and could possibly swing some trade to achieve that. That would answer our frontcourt woes for years. I could very easily see them taking Marcus with the 5th spot and Hailslip with the 14th pick. They could then concentrate on a 3 in the secound round. Maybe Mouton or Yarbrough, even Jacobson, Jiri Wesch, or possibly Matt Barnes. One thing is for sure, We will definitely draft a Terp with one of our picks. Whether it's with a 1st or 2nd rounder is still too early to tell.
I would prefer Ming (too much potential impact to overlook) if we really get lucky, then Gooden or Butler as our 1st pick. The latter two are outstanding on both ends of the court and can play multiple positions--they will make a team immediately better. Who is to say EG and Griffin couldn't be book end forwards the next 10 years? EG playing more the weak side shot blocker role on defense, the wing player on offense (a much better version of Horry) with Gooden playing the low block game both offensively and defensely. They could provide a nice complimentary offense games to our guards as well as anchor our defense with long, quick, tall, mobile forwards (this was the key to the Bulls underated defense of the 90s). I also think we get players that should peak some time between EG (he is only 20 years old) and our guards, and hopefully guys who can improve our team right away (especially because next year's draft pick will be shipped to Memphis). Any combination of Ming, Butler or Gooden with our first pick and Borchardt (say with our 2nd pick and maybe KT traded) would make me very happy. We could also take a flyer on Wilcox, or someone younger, but I would prefer not unless they totally blow away the more polished players available. Gooden's offensive game is light years more developed than Wilcox's and Gooden is no slouch in man to man defense.
I would think a trade is good especially if we are not real high on the polished players (Gooden,Butler) available to use. For a couple reasons (discussed above) I think we should try to get a player somewhat advanced (at least equal to EG in development). However I think you are way overrating Al Harrington. The guy has some talent, but he is not near in the value ballpark of Odom or Lewis right now--the latter two are much better targets for us. I would not offer a 5-6 pick for Harrington, no way. KT and the 14/15 pick, maybe, but not the 5-6 pick if it could be someone like Gooden, Butler or maybe Wilcox.
We won't pick (at least for ourselves) at #14. We're either trading both picks, or sending the 14th to Memphis (obligatino this year or next I think). Chicago is going to go for Jason Williams. Travis Best is an FA, and Curry, Chandler and Fizer are in the PF/C positions. The Bulls are quite talented now. If they get Jason Williams, they won't have to worry about his passing mentality because Rose will probably be the playmaker. Curry/Bagaric Chandler/Fizer Robinson Rose/Hassell Crawford/Williams In the East, that's not a lottery team. That's pretty good actually. Even Defensively.
Who is to say? If we can get the main player we want with our pick (good chance it is no worse than 6th and we have a decent chance at top 3) who is to say we won't also use a 14/15 pick on another good player this year. I would rather keep the 14/15 pick this year and trade them next year's pick--which will be around 20 if we can even make the 7th or 8th seed in the West; no far reach at all given the injuries we faced and our performance 2 years ago with less talent. We could also trade one of our current players (e.g., KT) to get 2 very high picks next year. I think there are way too many questions--namely how we come out in the lottery (hopefully Toronto wins tonight or Indiana loses) to know what we will do with our picks right now. Chicago may not get a chance at JW, they could easily fall to the 4th pick, or maybe even the 5th pick, in the draft. Further, they are an extremely long way away from the playoffs. They are still the worse team in the league (GS is better but play in the tougher conference) and no rookie this side of Wilt Chamberlin is going to make them immediately in the middle of the pack of the East. Untill Curry and Chandler become solid NBA players (could be a couple of years) they are going to stink, stink, stink. The East does relatively suck--but remember Milw, Toronto or Indiana isn't going to make the playoffs. The Bulls are a long way from being around those mid-level East teams.
