Stockton went toe to toe with the greats of the game. Even beat Olajuwon, Drexler, and Barkley thanks to a frickin bearhug that is the epitomy of Jerry Sloan's style of play. He also played against that Jordan guy. Twice.
As much as I don't want to give Stockton any credit. He got to finals twice as one of the main guys against the Payton, Dream, Drexler, Barkley, and Robinson and came up ahead. He also did it until he was 40 against superior athletes. To me he is more Cal Ripken great more than Reggie Jackson great, but he was great.
The reason I like Dwill more is because he gets his without dominating the ball. His game also seems like it would transcend any era because his strength and execution in the pick and role. CP reminds me too much of a very rich man's Starbury.
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Great, great, great post. That is excatly what I think. The only area when Paul may be better is passing. But it would be like Deron 8 and Paul 10. For me, Deron is a lot better than Paul. He really is. He is a lot better shooter. He can become a 30 ppg guy or a 15/15 guy if you want. He can do it all and he is damn so strong and pretty quick too. As you said, it is tough to say that about Jazz player, but it is what it is. Although, you have to give some credit to Chris, He is an amazing talent, amazing player.
Hmm, anyone feel like making a cheapshot/whiney/crybaby video of Chris Paul since obviously a video designed around some of his great plays trumps all??
Are you aware of a little stat called FG%? Because Deron and Paul have the exact same career FG% (Deron a little higher on threes), and Paul is outshooting Deron this year (from inside and outside of the arc). The best you could say for either one is that they are both good shooters...calling one a better shooter than the other is ignoring fact...calling one a lot better is just not even watching the games. And why do some think Deron is a much better pick and roll PG than Paul? They're basically half of Paul's offensive plays, too. In similar minutes, Paul scores more, at higher FG%'s and FT%'s, grabs more boards, gets more assists, has more steals, has fewer turnovers, and has better efficiency stats (PER, Roland Rating, etc.). He plays on a team with less depth and talent, equally as injured as the Jazz, with effectively teh same records. Doesn't make any sense why anyone would objectively think Deron is better than Paul.
Yeah I don't get it. Paul could become a 30 ppg guy or a 15/15 guy if he wants, too. He also rebounds well. And Paul gets a lot of steals. Deron a better shooter? I'll give you Deron has improved a ton since coming into the league. But I don't buy him being a better shooter at any distance. Some they are the same. Deron has been up and down with his 3 point shot--can't give him being definitively better until he proves it. And even though I hate the Jazz, I actually like Deron as a player. They're close, but I don't think it's even arguable. Paul is better
Were you trying to make a point there? Explain how Isiah Thomas is a better scorer or driver to the basket, if you can. Chris Paul seems pretty good at both of those things to my eyes. Isiah didn't win a whole lot in the post season until his 6th season in the league. He got to the second round once in his first three playoff appearances. Paul did the same in his first playoff appearance. Isiah "is one of the greatest guards of all time" isn't an argument. Handchecking is an important factor to consider, but I don't see how that makes comparing Isiah to Chris Paul "a disgrace." I just want someone to point out some specific basketball abilities that made Isiah a better player. Saying "he won championships" or "he's a legend" doesn't tell me anything. Did Isiah have a better handle? Did he have a better first step? A surer jumper shot? Did he have superior court vision? Was he more of a lock down defender? Did he exhibit superior leadership qualities? In all those areas, save perhaps the jump shot, Chris Paul seems pretty damn good.
"pretty good" isn't Isiah good.. it's funny how later in the post you ask for "specific basketball skills" and completely disregard the specific basketball skills I listed that Isiah is superior to Paul in.. that is, driving to the basket and scoring the ball.. for proof, I don't want to direct you to "youtube.com" because highlights are misleading despite the fact that they give you a good impression of what a player can do in terms of moves/abilities etc.. but I've made my observations based on several pistons games I've caught either on ESPN classic or NBA TV, where Zeke clearly showed his superiority in scoring and getting to the hoop WITH handchecking in place and "old school" defense if you will.. ya know, the defense that would cause Paul to have a seizure and fall down like a mental patient.. one thing I completely forgot to mention is DEFENSE, and I remember that you appreciate defense and don't underestimate it like a lot of people on this board do.. Isiah actually played decent defense, he kept his man in check most of the time, and he went against the best of em back then, not Rafer Alston, Randy Foye, Aaron Brooks and TJ Ford (it's funny because Paul can't even stop Aaron) .. Chris Paul plays NONE, and please don't present the steals stat as prove for his defense because that's not called good defense, that's called excessive gambling and defies my strict old school basketball principles (that's why Battier isn't a leader in steals, but he's by far the best defender in the league).. fair enough, we'll see what Paul will eventually do in this league, which, despite all the help he's getting, he hasn't done crap and I don't see him winning anything significant any time soon.. but being named one of the top 50 players of all time is.. I'm not trying to prove that Isiah is better than Paul, I've arguing that comparing the too is disgraceful..you can't compare a 3rd or 4th year player to one of the top 50 basketball players in history.. it's like comparing Tmac to Jordan after his insane Orlando seasons.. look where he is now.. again, plenty of basketball specific proof presented in my post.. and I'm not as big of a stats guy as you are, but I really think that stats alone aren't a reliable source of evaluating a player, much less comparing him to one of the all time greats.. just like it would be insane to compare McGrady's 30+ ppg season to Jordan and say that he's better than him, it doesn't work that way..
dude what the heck is wrong with you?? why do you have the video automatically start? I was in a public place and the sound just went off.. anyway the post was reported, we don't need CP3 troll fanboys
The only specifics I saw in your post was that he was "Scorer?" and "Driving to the basket?" It just seems strange you would put that down as obvious skills in which Isiah Thomas was superior, when Chris Paul is very clearly no slouch in either of those areas. Paul is arguably the best penetrating PG in the league, and when he decides he needs to score during a game there isn't a better scorer at the PG position. And I do think its valid to compare a player of Chris Paul's caliber to Isiah Thomas. You make it seem like they're on totally different levels, but there isn't a single skill or attribute I can think of in which Isiah Thomas has a clear, obvious edge. Not scoring. Not passing. Not running a break. Not running a pick and roll. Not leadership. But let's talk about defense. You mentioned that they allowed the handchecking back then, but remember it goes both ways. If you want to credit Isiah Thomas for being a better, more physical defender, remember that the league allowed him and some of his teammates to get away with a lot in the late 80s. Do those Pistons win back to back championships with today's rules? Quite possibly not. As for the stats, I'm not looking for a purely statistical argument. But stats, as misleading as they can sometimes be, still have to be considered as part of the evidence. The facts show that as a scorer, Thomas was typically below league average in scoring efficiency. Chris Paul is well above average. In terms of winning, Thomas did not accomplish much more than Paul has in his first 4-5 years. And Thomas also turned it over much more. None of that means that Paul is a better player. But I do think there's enough data in Paul's favor to make the debate "who's better?" a legitimate one.
Didn't he have a lingering ankle injury this year? I'm sure that must've affected his shot. Last year, he was right at 40% from behind the arc.
I'm with you here. I think Chris Paul is better than Zeke ever was. If you put Zeke on this Hornets team, they would not be nearly as good. If you put the current Chris Paul on the Bad Boys, they might have won a couple more championships. Sometimes nostalgia clouds people's minds when they look back on the "golden days" of when basketball was played a different way during "the legends" time. What made Zeke great (if you call him that) was the team concept he executed as PG, the fact he was surrounded with good teammates and the 2 championships they won (IMO, the first was almost tainted because of the injuries to Magic and Coop; otherwise the Lakers would have popped them good).
