A Canary In The Mine: An Open Plea To All CCF Rockets Fans ( Please Read )

Nope, you could call it stream of "I'm so pissed off I can't see straight anymore-ousness"

 

I realize that a lot of people in the BBS are frustrated with the ongoing Yao-Francis debate but my position is it is one of the bigger stories/questions surrounding this team so why would a message board designed to discuss Rockets basketball ban discussion of the first thing anyone, related to or not related to the Rockets, says when they disuss the team? If you don't like the debate you simply have to put your index finger on the mouse and click the back button. I think some of the Yao-Francis posts get out of control but it is not as if you are forced to read these threads. I actually find people who whine about Yao-Francis posters more annoying than the Yao-Francis posters themselves. Just some food for thought.

 

I think what we are facing here, in supporting the Rox, is basically what this league has become and the NBA is now facing:

On one hand, you have the raw highly talented, high flying, highlight reel making stud that has promoted in this league to target the younger viewers. (Regardless of their lack of skills)

On the other, you have a highly skilled, team oriented, very coachable (although is having trouble breaking from that mold to take over a game), that appeal more to the older viewer that understands that basketball has always been more of a mental game than physical game.

You can see the diversity in the young guns coming in from high school or leaving college early and the overseas players.

The problem lies in that the NBA has promoted the showtime; I can take on everyone on the court and throw down a 2 handed, reverse, under my leg, windmill dunk that will make the Sports Center Top 10 highlight reel and Inside the NBA Top 10 Plays of the Week. BUT, cannot make a 10 foot jump shot, shoot free throws, or know that being the star on a team doesn't mean you have to be the top scorer every night.

Does anybody remember why the 80's Lakers and Celtics were so fun to watch? Both teams were about the TEAM, and yet had stars that make big plays when they needed to.

Michael Jordon changed all that, but now, I'm not so sure it was for the best. To many people think that if they are the superstars and the teams follows them, they will win in all.

But now with the influx of overseas players that have a more all around game, the bar has been raised. And yes I do agree most of them do need work on their defensive skills, due to the fact that they don't have the same level of competition to learn against. But, they have been given so much more..... a better start by learning the basics and understanding that the highlights can come with the game, but focus on learning the entire game.

So in closing, don't be surprised that there is a division in views on talent, skill and the future on the NBA. Also, don't surprise when there is more of a push for people who can play the game the way it suppose to be played.

The talented, no skilled, physically gifted players will be overshadowed if they fell to learn the game. Period.

 

A good summary of your long post.

There is one more point that i want to make, hopefully can clean up the mess a bit.

By praising Yao doesn't mean degrading or criticizing Steve or CAT, and vice versa. Also by criticizing Steve or CAT doesn't mean we like Yao only, and vice versa. Nobody in this world can do no wrong. We praise to encourage and criticize to help to grow the player.

But there is a time limit! Each player on this team is a project! And by the time the project needs to meet the deadline, we should consider either abandoning the project or giving it more time. I guess the so-called "yao-only" fans think the steve-project and cat-project needs to meet their deadlines now and they decide to abandon those two projects. While the "so-called" steve-only" fans only "cat-lovers" see it in a different way. They prefer to give those two projects a little more time.

I myself, was attacked by some people here for asking Steve and CAT to pass more and to not do the ISOs too much, and was immediately labelled "Yao-only" fan, which i felt so ridiculous and irritated.

 

One of the most INSIGHTFUL posts I have every read on this board. You are absolutely on target. This is why many of us "struggle" with the play of our guards, and long for the play of the old Lakers and Celtics.

 

Exactly! Most of the people with senior status deserve to be treated as a senior. But some of them, really deserves downgrading.

I once proposed to the Clutch to reevaluate its status system, but heard no response.

 

181st!

Mulder, good points, and JAG, great read as always. Please don't even threaten wandering off, I want to see more, not less from ya!

I echo the poster who said Yao is their favorite player, but if he or any other current Rocket player goes to another team, said player no longer earns any allegiance from me. This is a Rockets BBS, so I would expect that to be the prevailing view. Clearly, there are people who will just continue to cheer for whatever team Yao plays for. Those that come off as YOF's annoy the majority who formed with the intent of rooting for the Rockets, not one player. However, even though we are aware such fans exist, I think we can refrain from labeling individuals in public, agreed?

I look at it like this:
Thick or thin, I will always be a Rockets fan.
Yao Ming makes me proud to be one.

We are lucky to have on the team such a great ambassador of the game and his country. In a world where rogue terror groups will eventually threaten all nations, building bridges and goodwill to nations like China will be essential, and in a very small way, Yao Ming helps. His personal character makes me proud he's on the team, but regardless of how I feel about him, on this BBS forum, the Rockets comes first and foremost.

Let's try to save the wrath for the truly deserving in the basketball world: Lakers, Jazz, EG, Joey Crawford, etc..

 

Well, after a long good discussion, I will throw out another theory here (bite me danjojo):

The phantom connection of Chinese posters who criticise the guards, sometimes in a spirit dampening way, ie. even when we win, and supposedly Yao-only-fan, has as much to do with cultural differences. (I know, as if we are not already sick of hearing cultural differences.)

Most Chinese are quite used to criticising or be criticised, even in the midth of success. There is a Chinese saying that: "(facing criticism), Correct it if there is one, motivate if there is none." Whereas Americans are almost always: "Good job Jimmy, way to go."

What I'm trying to say is, criticism towards bad plays doesn't mean one actually hates a player, or by extention, a XXX-only-fan.

michecon

 

I am sure that in this spirit of renewed understanding and brotherly love, this was a typo and michecon meant "cite" me regarding the insight that followed.

 

People Are Responsible For Abetting Their Own Stereotypes
I totally sympathesize with people who are truly wrongfully stereotyped b/c of other people's quick judgment in lumping them with some group. However, discrimination, which is such a taboo word these days, is not, in itself, a bad thing. Just b/c a person is discriminatory doesn't make him racist or evil or any other negative connotation you want to think of. IMHO, people should just acknowledge that we are ALL discriminatory by NATURE and that we should acknowledge that the problem with communication and being "politically correct" is one about respect and civility and NOT one that is solved through this facade of political correctness that makes us all duplicitous and liars at heart.

If minorities don't care to be stereotyped, whether they Yao-only fans, Anti Yao-only fans, Brittany sycophants, dumb teen-boppers, etc., why abet those images??? On a BBS, the mode of communication is text. If you don't want to be perceived as a Yao-Only Fan why continue with the single-minded, conspicuously biased, negatively charged text that is ASKING to be political? IMHO, people know full well what their motives are, and if indeed it's about being political, so be it. As Yun correctly states, this BBS is but a reflection of society, and in society, we witness just that -- politicians, peacekeepers, law enforcers, academics, sages , etc.

Yun, I'm terribly sorry if you feel that newcomers to this board are immediately stereotyped. That, I hope will come to an end, as again, more fan interest, for whatever the motive is better than less, IMO. (David Stern paid me to say that.) New comers are more than welcome in my book. And think about it. This BBS, this thing called the Internet, it affords you anonymity. If you want to avoid being stereotyped, well then, you and every poster on this board has that freedom in what they type. Nobody can see you! Yet since we all have handles, we can also be identified. Thus, anonymity only goes so far, and that's a good thing, b/c we must then all be accountable for what we write. If a poster could just post inflammatory remarks anonymously and randomly, then I'd say, "off with his/her head." But that's not the case here, and thus, I champion the idea of free, but accountable, speech.



theSAGE

 

Well if anyone gives a damn what I have to say ,here goes my opinion.

First off, even though Im a rocket fan,I only support good players. But also,players that are good for chemistry. Such as though I feel Mobley is better than Pike,Id rather have Pike here for chemistry and trade Mobley. Thats what alot of people are hating on me about.

Now,here comes my stupid opinion, I feel like only Yao,Pike,Boki,Jackson,possibly Steve are the only players that should and will take us to the championship. SO why would I bother to say something nice about Mobley,when in fact I truely believe that Mobley is a virus to this team and I want him gone asap?

The reason I say possibly steve,is because I dont know what goes on behind closed doors,so maybe Steve is really getting along great with JVg so in that case he can stay,otherwise if he goes against the coach then I lump him in with cat,but its hard to tell because steve will have games where he gets it, then other games when he looks lost.

Anyways, I feel that Yao is by far the best player. And so I dont hold any grudge against YOFans because they are right. Yao pretty much is the franchise now,and without him we would be the worst team in the league. If they are not rocket fans,but only yao fans,then you still shouldnt hate them I guess because whats best for Yao is okay with me since I love Yao. But I dont love the other rockets. They are just there to help Yao .

Yao in my book is the new Hakeem. Back in 1992,I hated all the rockets except hakeem and I thought they sucked,and that if Hakeem ever wanted to win a ring,he should leave to bulls. But I was wrong,and the rockets got better players,then I was happy,but still I put Hakeem ahead of the team,lets be honest, Hakeem carried those teams. Yao carries this team,though not in points,but in other ways like team Defense. When Yao sits on the bench,the offense and defense looks terrible.

So,I love Yao,and if yao decided that CD doesnt know how to build a team because of bad contracts, I would agree with Ming and still be a fan of his ,though not as much . Then the question remains, would I still be a rocket fan if Ming left and this team was terrible? Well the answer is no. Because I have other things to do in life besides root for a last place team thats not going anywhere. The only reason I bother to watch now is because I have a slight hope they might make the playoffs. But dont blame me, there are THOUSANDS of houstonians that will not goto games when the team is losing. And then start going when they win. Yes Im a band wagoner. I still hope they improve when they are having bad times like in 2002 and I pay close attention to salaries and lottery picks,but I admit Im not a diehard fan like some here that will still devote your entire life to the rockets even when they are lottery bound. Basically, I dont even bother to watch the Texans right now because I hate losing,and I already know in advance that it will a couple of more years before they are playoff bound, Then I'll start watching them and spending my spare time watching winners,instead of losers.

sweetie runs and hides

 

They may not "hate" said player, but it is clear there are a number of posters that refuse to even consider anything negative about Yao, instead blaming JVG, "the guards", the refs, etc.

I'm not in favor of using the term YOF and I am not defending harsh treatment of these posters, but they are what they are. And it is clear who some of these people are. They clearly feel Yao is the single most important entity on the Rockets and dare not speak negatively about him, whereas long time Rockets fans support the team as a whole and will dish out criticism equally.

 

Being Discriminatory Doesn't Make a Person Evil

I respect MacBeth tremendously. Honestly, I do. But on many of his points in this thread, in terms of my opinions on the matter, I see things quite counter to him/her. What keeps me from pulling a "political" faux pas is that I don't go out to lambaste him. I do, as I normally do with most posters who I disagree with.

1. I acknowledge their views.
2. I treat them with respect.
3. I state my counter-opinion.

I'm not saying this this is right way to go about doing things, or that we need some established protocol here. (In fact, I favor putting the responsibility of protocol enforcement on the individual -- whereby I believe the individual to be smart enough to do what is right when it comes to maintaining the integrity of ANY community). But I definitely do not believe in being "PC" for the sake of being "PC." The same discriminatory eye that allows me to make, what I hope to be, intelligent posts in this forum, is the same discriminatory eye that allows to discern true and subtle differences (ideological, behaviorial, etc.) among people. We're all discriminatory when it comes to picking friends, picking ideas, picking cars, picking tomatoes etc., why do we arbitrary make a rule when it comes to our opinions?

In the context of this BBS, I'd point out that most ALL OF US are discriminatory. Else, why bother posting on observations we feel are of importance regarding the team, a player, the coach, etc.? I believe that the best communities are self-regulated by the individual. If the individual can't determine for themselves how best to conduct themselves, well then, surely this individual will run the risk of being stigmatized by society. Besides which, consider this too: Given my own interest in lively and intelligent talk, there are particular thread starters (e.g. MacBeth, codell, oftentimes senior members etc.) who I go to first. The point being that everyone has a choice here about what to read and what not to read, where to post and where not to post. Even people want to get political and start political threads, so be it...

Even political debate serves a purpose. To some it may be humorous, but to others, debate really does help synthesize and clarify one's own ideas on the matter. And since debate requires that people take sides, much like playing a game a chess, then each willing party should be encouraged to take a side. There's nothing wrong with that. I think it was either Sir Jack Chilles or CRC who hit the nail right on the head, and that's the importance of treating people with RESPECT.

Respect, civility, trust -- these should be given to all.

Happy Turkey!



theSAGE

 

Nice of you to step up and post sweetie. Don't hide, just don't wear the blinders.

Yao, Pike, Boki & Jackson are NOT going to take this team to the playoffs, let alone a Championship without Steve and/or Mobley. That is a fact. Pike and Boki are one dimensional players. While Jackson is a decent player, he isn't someone to lean on. He is better utilized in a support role along with other support players.

Regarding your Steve vs. JVG comments, you're right....you don't know what goes on behind closed doors, so why assume the worst? I have seen no indication that Steve is going against the grain, but rather the exact opposite. He is deferring to Yao early, which is what every good director of the offense(PG) does. He tries to get the big man going early because it opens up everyone elses game. We did it with Hakeem. We will do it with Yao. Fabricating drama that Steve and JVG may not be getting along isn't even worth discussing until it is a known fact. There hasn't been one shred of anything resembling coach/player drama.

About Yao being the best player on this team....probably. He is 7'5" afterall! But Steve and Mobley bring benefits too. I'll agree simply because the guy is 7'5".

It's a shame really that you can't see past one player. You're missing out on an entire game.

 

No! Being discriminatory to an individual may be not evil but being discriminatory by using stereotype against group of people is the same as racism, sexism, xxxism.

What happening here is that people create the stereotype of Yao's fan as a stupid person who do not care for the ROX and called them Yao-only fan.
While it may based on that person encoutered with such individual that have such idea or behavior it is not true for all Yao's fan or New fan.
That label and stereotype has been applied unjustly to any person that are Yao's fan and they have been treated unfairly.

A lot of time, the opinion was dismiss and put down under the label instead of debating on the idea.

It is like the stereotype about Black or Asian in the U.S that we are facing everyday.

 

Just to clarify, it isnt that I HATE Steve and Mobley and the rest other than Yao, its more like a "if steve gets traded I can get over that as long as we improved", whereas with Ming,I dont want him ever traded because I think he is that special. I know that JJ and Yao cant do it alone, but when you said they are one diminsional,thats actually kinda good because they know their roles,and will not step out of their roles trying to showboat like Cat. As far as talent and skill ,I LOVE Cat and Steve,and they are really good by themselves,but with Ming I just dont know yet. Its so hard to forgive Mobleys boneheaded plays sometimes that I think he is doing it on purpose or something.

And yes,I pretty much always pick a couple of guys every year on the team that I hate and want traded. Last year it was Kenny Thomas' jab steps and no passing that made me hate him. Nows it Moochie and sometimes Mobley and also Cato when he thinks he can shoot,and ends up with an airball.

Back in the championship days, I loved all the players for once,because for 2 years they had perfect chemistry and the offense was a well oiled machine with no errors. This years offense however looks sputtering,and the turnovers need to be address otherwise its lottory again. So the players I think cause this "sputtering" are Moochie,and Cato and Mobley.

 

True.....or maybe some of these so called "Yao only fans" are giving Yao the benefit of the doubt, free of criticism since he is only a second year player who's full potnetial may or may not have been reached. These posters probably gave Francis and Mobley the same pass earlier in their careers, but feel that after 4 or 5 seasons, Francis and Mobley do not have the team heading in the direction that these posters feel will eventually lead to a team capable of getting out of the first round of the playoffs.

 

Don't turn this into a discussion about discrimination(which you are wrong about). IMO this thread doesn't belong here anyway, but that discussion definitely needs to go to the D&D.