A Canary In The Mine: An Open Plea To All CCF Rockets Fans ( Please Read )

over-reactions.........everywhere! its not hard to just ignore the posts you think are stupid or worthless. just dont click on them. or if you click, use the back button once you know its worthless.

 

My friend, I did notice that. It doesn't matter though because we all know that Steve and Cat intentionally gave Yao diarrhea.

 

i didn't know free throws only come from fouls in the act of shooting. that's news to me. i'm gonna have to call the nba and complain about the refs giving yao free throws when he was foul and didn't even have the ball. damn those yao only fans have so much influence. they are even changing the nba rules by sending yao to the free throw line even when he doesn't have the ball. them yao only fans are everywhere!!!! i can't even trust the refs anymore cause they might be -20 basketball IQ yao only fans!!!

 

i think the whole labelling thing comes from the recent american emphasis on bipartisanship. the people who say ____-only-fan are the same people who call someone, after hearing only one thing, a damn liberal or a damn conservative, and think of it as an insult.

 

I disagree. We have a "game thread" with a "sticky" and most of it is stuff I just skim through... because it gets several pages long and I get tired of reading so much of the same BS. I look through it anyway, because there are always excellent posts amongst the other stuff. The admins do a heroic job, but for awhile we were getting good threads merged into the game thread because "that's where it should be". There is a good discussion about all of this in the Feedback forum and hopefully some tweaking will ensue. But my point is that it's hard to ignore a lot of stuff many of us would like to skim past... there is just so much of it.

I understand where you're coming from, MacBeth. I've been lurking here since the summer of '98, and there used to be rabid, vitriolic discussions about basketball. Things could get heated, and sometimes people got booted, at least for awhile, but there wasn't the massive "piling on" that we so often see these days. There were far less people posting... maybe I should say that there were a lot of people posting, to be accurate (this has been a large BBS for a long time and for damn good reasons), but not in anything approaching what we have now.

I'm a Rocket fan, and a fan of Houston teams (although I'm still trying to get interested in the Texans. They ain't the Oilers I grew up with) so I understand where some of the frustration comes from. It's gotten to where you can't criticize some players without getting some kind of label thrown at you.

I've been a fan since before Sampson was drafted. He was criticized (and still is sometimes here on the BBS and some of it well deserved), Hakeem was criticized on this board sometimes, (he wasn't always the "god" some make him out to be... he had his moments) and argued about in bars and living rooms before this BBS existed. That didn't mean we didn't love them as players. Sometimes they had bad games and/or made bad decisions. But they were Rockets.

You ought to be able to dissect and criticize any of the players or coaches without being piled on by a bunch of immature, egocentric, hell... fill in the blanks. It's OK to have good, heated arguments. It's gotten beyond tiresome to have to defend yourself from being pigeon-holed as belonging to one clique or another while you're trying to have your good, heated argument.

I hope I managed to say what I was trying to get across.
Oh, and whoever called MacBeth a liberal... he's not. But that's for another forum.

 

to MacBeth, DavidS, and all of you who have posted:

Its so obvious that you all feel so passionately about this issue to the extent to argue about the applied logic of the whole mess, and I feel the same way. As a avid lurker, occassional poster- I see where you are all coming from and understand your sentiments, but I feel that your arguments are all going for naught, as the "YOF" to whom you are trying to reach probably stopped reading this thread after the third/fourth post. You're arguing details with those whom are essentially on the same side. The ignorant will choose to remain in ignorance.

 

First of all! Thank you Macbeth for an excellent post.

Secondly, I apologize to use your other thread as an example in YOF bashing/arguement thread. I did not mean to drag you down in the argument.

Thirdly: Let me discuss this issue as a fan who follow the rocket because of Yao.

When I first joined the board, I was looking for the information about Yao's new team.
I watched basketball but not religiously and I like Spur and Sac when they played because they play team basketball.
Because of Yao, I take The rocket as my team and follow the rocket in every game.
Win or loose, the rocket is my team!

After, reading the board for a while, I realize that there is a hostility against new fan like me who start folowing the rocket because of Yao.
We were "grouped and labelled as Yao-only fans and treated like second class member.

Of-course there are many posts from Yao's supporters that I felt like stupid posts.
However,IMO, if a poster post a stupid post, he/she should be dealt with as individual.
If someone choose to argue with him/her, or create a name calling war, they should not just push down that individual for the only reason that he/she is Yao's fan.

I felt the term "Yao-only fan" is unjust and is used for redicule only.
As an Asian, who is a minority in this country, I have been labeled and discriminated against enough.
That is why I see this "Yao-only fan" label as another situation when people discriminating another group of people.
I believe that many new rocket fans who happened to be Asian or Asian-American might feel the same.

As a result, like in real life, I resume a defensive position and label myself as a "Yao-only fan".

This is what happened, when people start labelling or being labelled. It will result in deviding any community.

I think that the solution would occur if everyone avoid labelling others as part of any group recognize one's opinion as that individual's opinion.

 

Wow. Really appreciate your candidness. I believe that's part representative of AYOF's mentality.

People have difference perspectives. That's OK. But when it starts to bother you, that's where hate comes from.

Oh, and for that matter, Why would you care about people in Houston like Rockets or not. You shouldn't really care either. In a way, you like what you like, they like what they like.

What I really want to ask is, why would geography the sole standard in sports allegience? Can, for example, parents of a student who attends UT, who themselves have never set foot in Texas be a Texas fan, or maybe even a Rockets fan by some further connection? Is this not a honnorable thing to do?

You know, in a way, Yao Ming, is the son of China, of all Chinese. People see him that way. That's why they care, that's why they care about the team he plays. Or is this somehow wrong they likes Rockets?

You know, for all I know, you don't really need to care about anyone else's sports royalty. JUST LEAVE THEM ALONE. Don't hate because people have different perspective, or life experience than you.

 

I'll add in my comments as well since it is an extremely important matter.

I've been on other fan boards before, and they're all pretty much the same, cyclical. When you stay in one place long enough, eventually, routine, or boredom sets in. New people come, others leave, come back...people agree, disagree, complain...that's just life...everyone can't be on the same page as you...my guess is some people on the board don't even understand the points you are trying to make half the time, because A) Your posts are too long and they don't read them fully, and/or B) Your language is not the average sports fan's language...

Anyway, if a site that is supposed to be entertaining is causing you so much grief, you probably do need to take a break from it.

It's a basketball fan site, not your life...is it ?

 

I don't really have much to say, but the temptation to place myself amongst these other fine and famous posters (MacBeth, etc) in this thread is just too great to resist.

I am sure the Yoffies want to see Rockets win as much as any normal Rockets fans. Will Yao ever leave the Rockets? All good things will eventually come to an end, but if you consider the loyalty that stemmed from Yao's culture, leaving Rockets will just be a distant possibility.

Yao made me a Rockets fan and now the wins and losses of the Rockets have become one of the foundations of my weekly mood swings. I am enjoying the ride while it lasts - and it is great to have something else to look forward to, between the Rugby and Cricket on Sydney's yearly sports calendar.

I don't believe this board will ever self-destruct - it has too long and prosper a history and with too solid a following to ever suffer such a fate. So I say, let everyone just post away, regardless of what they want to say - it is the beauty of freedom of speech.

SS999

 

I can probabilly agree there are individual posters here who who only care about what Yao does. However, that's not a good reason to use "yao-only-fan" label. For, the moment you start labeling, you have possibility of mis-labeling, (especially when there is similarity between the poster's arguments and the arguments of supposedly Yao-only-fan.) . And you should know how annoying it is to be mislabeled.

To me, there shouldn't be a lable like that. To me, there is only stupid (ok, unintelligent, to be civil) fan, and intelligent fan. Last night, Silentfan had the honor of being labeled Yao-only-fan. But, to me, he's just a boarderline unintelligent enough fan. (You can read his thread of Yao's BB IQ for reference).

Here's an opportunity to admitt some of the new rockets followers are just unintelligent fans in my book. Some of them just lacks enough knowledge of NBA or Rockets. A small bunch of individuals are just immature. However, "yao-only-fan" is just an injustified label to lump every new comer under this annoying title.

Heck, there isn't really stupid fans out there. (OK, I admit, I think that someone argued about the his rightousness in using of Chinese language is probabily just a stupid fan.) There is probabily distinguition between an intelligent post, and an unintelligent post. So, just ignor the stupid ones and move one. Or, if you want to engage with this specific poster/post, do as you wish. But please do not use the labeling.

As for the Steve-apologists, it is my observation that, some of so labeled ones are just apologists to themselves. What they are really doing, is defend themselves, or their predetermined stance on the issue. So it appears they are more stubburn to admit Steve/Cat's sometime mistakes more than Steve/Cat themselves.

michecon

 

OK Folks, I Admit, I am a YOF Labeller

Fact is, I'm guilty of using the YOF label certain posters. Heck, I might have even been one of the earliest people to use that label since early last year. Yet for most of you who follow my posts, you also that I was one of Yao' staunchest supporters even when he was flailing and the season was young.

Not to ignite more fires, but the one thing I think people conveniently forget is that YOF aren't simply people rooting for Yao, but fans who coincidentally CRITICIZE and LAMBASTE pretty much everybody else on the Rocket roster including RudyT at times. That kind of stuff drives me nuts. It's blind idolatry at its worst where there's one unquestionable hero and everybody else is just part of the problem. Moreover, many YOFs actually ADMIT that they love Yao and hate the rest of the Rox. I would know, b/c I used to challenge them repeatedly in threads last year.

For the record, I WELCOME more fans. The more the merrier. I don't care where you live or where you come from. And even if Yao was the initial reason for certain folks to become interested in basketball and/or the Rockets, all the better. But it's the persistent negativity of YOFs that drives me up a wall. It's the same kind of illogical indignance I hear of certain minority groups who just love blaming all of society for their setbacks.

My hope is that as the team continues to win, winning will unify ALL fans under the Rocket umbrella. The Rocket team is truly special with Yao. We are a GLOBAL team of GLOBAL recognition and that is an unambiguous good.



theSAGE

 

the people on this message board is a mirror into our society. the spectrum of personalities on this board is wide. there are smart ppl, dumb ppl, avg ppl, funny ppl, angry ppl, nervous ppl, annoying ppl, happy ppl, goofy ppl, sweet ppl, dishonest ppl and whatever else ppl exist out there. i don't know what this board was like "back in the days", whatever that means. it is just sad that some ppl want to claim this bbs as "theirs". just cause you've been a member of this bbs for 10 years doesn't mean that you have more right or you opinion means more on this bbs. just cause you've written 1000 posts doesn't mean your words have more weight. as far as i understand, this bbs is open to the public.

 

if you are going to make statements like these, you should be aware that there are ppl in the majority group who just loves blaming all of society for their setbacks.

 

Wow, this has been a good read. What a way to start my day!

Being concerned about this issue MacBeth raised ended when I was in the Age thread in the other forum.

I DO remember when I was between 20-30...

RR

ps. I sometimes miss my passion in sports.

 

Is my understanding correct that basically, what MacBeth is trying to say is:

- everyone should support the whole team, even if they came here because they really liked one player
- we should avoid blind partisanship and "hating" certain players just because we might favor one player
- we should not quickly label fans as "player x" only fans

Is this understanding correct or have I missed something?

 

To break it down, I think there are 2 types of member discremination in GARM that is causing concern:

1) The Yao-only & Anti-Yao-only Fans

2) The ongoing problem between newbies & veterans


I think most of the people will agree that not all Yao-only fans are annoying, and the same can be said about the newbies on this board. However, there is a tendency, just like what MacBeth said, that such a discrimination has become so severe that often people have been labelled by other posters & forced to pick sides. Then what happened? Posters tried to defend themselves by attacking the other party - which has become the trend on this board lately & caused all the animosity, insults & negativity - something all of us don't want to see here.

Now, let's look at the population & determine the majority/minority group:

1) Anti-Yao-only fan > Yao-only fan

2) Veterans > Newbies

Most of the time, the majority group is in the driver seat and dictating the conversation and laying the smackdown on the minority (who, often, are indeed annoying/ignorant or convicted a certain crime) in an attempt to restore order in the community.

However, the biggest concern here is not the problems caused by the minorities, but a huge population of the majority jumping on these minorities. e.g. a ratio of 20 vs 1. The quality of this site is degraded simply due to the repetition of insults, animosity, hate...etc.

From the above, in order to improve the situation, those who are in the driver seat - the majority - should make a conscious effort dealing with the minority in a more positive way, which raised the question - how to get a messages across to the other side without starting a war?

Answer: Respect

A respect for this place, the ClutchFans BBS - like a sacred temple, that you will do anything to enhance it instead of destroying it. A respect to this environment so much that you won't throw any insults/labels/profane language to any others. A respect knowing that this is a public forum, there are childrens & others watching your posts that won't cope well with bashing/arguing/insults in this place.

To me, it's a given that all senior members who spend a large amount of time here should all have this respect towards the site & thankful for it's existance. And willing do whatever it takes to improve this place instead of destroying it.

Thus, I urge everyone, not just the senior members, to bring their best behavior everytime they are on the board, set a good example & lead the BBS to the promise land.

PEACE

 

Jackie, Jackie, Jackie...

you are definitely missed something.

 

And that is...(summary, please)...

 

Itha conthpirathy!