A Canary In The Mine: An Open Plea To All CCF Rockets Fans ( Please Read )

Macbeth, in regards to your parallel situation...(Which to be honest, reminds me of the way elementary teachers try to teach their students about tolerance)

If it were me, I wouldn't be posting on a website where I had limited to no comprehension of the language. Call it being narrow-minded, call it being anti-other cultures, whatever you want. If I can't speak the language at a high school level, I won't post there. I have no desire to look like an idiot and represent my country in that manner.

I would also probably not even venture to that site in the first place, I'd end up visiting an English site dedicated to Smith and Smith alone. Like RIET said, what do I know about Cricket? What if I've only been following it for a short time, ever since I became a fan of Smith? It doesn't seem like I'd have anything worthwhile to contribute to that board for the Indian team.

 

Logical flaw.

Steve/Cat dribble too much =/ Yao only. Hence, labelling someone a Yao only fan because they're attacking the selfishness of the guards is not a valid conclusion. It may be true in some cases, but it's not necessary.

However, there is no reverse, flawed syllogism. So you seem to have decided "well, if some people would just stop claiming certain people are Yao-only fans, then it would only be fair if "the other side" stops calling Steve/Cat selfish.

Unfortunately, you're "barring" a perfectly legitimate opinion along with the flawed accusation. Even if one assumes that this opinion isn't always legitimate, you're still playing sides.

You're removing the substantive opinion of one side from the table, while only addressing the other side's name calling.

You're calling for "fairness" when in reality your request betrays its own bias.

Want to call for a little consideration? Fine. But don't make a biased request essentially calling for the silence of people of a different view than you, rendering your own opinion the only one that can be voiced (or at least, understood).

 

Just think about the swell of new posters we've had since Yao Ming came to this team. And we've had just about as many quality posters come over during that time as from previoius years. Going on sheer percentages, it is rather telling of new fans.

I'm not condoning ridicule or lashing out at these fans. And you're right, being a Rockets fan is a great thing. But my problem isn't someone becoming a Rockets fan because they like Yao, it's that if Yao left the team, they wouldn't like the team anymore. That's not a Rockets fan to me, even if they act as if they support this team in the short term.

 

No, I think it's imporatant that you started this thread so everyone sees the problem - but as you might know it's not realistic that all of a sudden everyone changes their attitudes/perspective about something.

What I'm saying is, we need a prototype here that works - Someone have to set an example & showing how to start a good thread (which u already did) & how to engage a good BBS discussion (to be improved). Now, what I mean is, since you are capable of acheving half of the criteria (starting a good thread), what we can do is think about ways of how to foster a good discussion in threads you started.

We need to try & carryout the experimentation to see what works, so the successful prototype can be used as a reference for others threads to foster good discussions.

 

You couldnt be any more wrong if you tried.

as has been notated by others already inthis thread, those types of fans are here, whether we choose to label them or not, that doesnt take away from the fact that there are fans here who only care about what Yao does.

The only reason they have to care about the rest of the players is with regard to how they can help Yao get more stats. These are the same people who constantly post about how Yao will leave after his contract is up because they dont think the team is helping Yao achieve their lofty goals for him.

That is what most here that label mean when they refer to Yao only fans.

You are not helping your cause by assuming just because the members dont agree with you in regard to Yao that they " still fail to understand that Steve and Cat dribbled too much and fail to use Yao to the fullest extent in JVG's system"....thye understand just fine....but maybe they are more patient in letting the coach change the team to better utilize ALL THE PLAYERS.
Maybe they dont feel that we need to trade half the team just because everything isn't ticking along like clockwork yet.

Oh, the horrors...fans with patience??? how can that be? it must be because they dont "get it".

 

I agree with you, but I think its a cultural thing and there is nothing wrong if there are a lot of Chinese 'yao-only' fans, they are right in being proud of him, and I can understand that they would follow him if he changed teams. Most Americans are patriotic as hell, so you can't criticise another cultural for sharing the same attributes.

Remember, if it wasn't for Yao, alot of these fans might not even follow the NBA, let alone the Rockets. Who here has the right to judge what is and isnt an acceptable reason for following the rockets.

Yao is a member of the Rockets, therefore, any fan of Yao is a fan of the rockets, no matter how annoying some of their posts may be.

 

well said macbeth.

 

MacBeth, I whole-heartedly agree with you, but you have to understand, not everyone here takes the MB as seriously as they should, and are content with going about thier own ways. While Marx may have been cruel and condescending in his theories, there comes a time for practicality over idealogy. Yes, it would be great if people didn't have to be TOLD the right thing to do. Will it happen? Probably not.

PS: Remeber that a lot of these posters are kids, aka: not adults, aka: not responsible.

PPS: I am I also a minor, so I have the liberty to generalize in my belittlings.

PPPS: But I don't want anyone to take it personally.

PPPPS: Really.

 

Nice post Macbeth. I totally agree. I am tired of all the trash that is going on in the GARM forum.

Man...now that was a long post! More reading in that post than I do for my classes.

 

[alienating BBS]

Alright, trying to be diplomatic about this isn't solving anything, so I might as well dissolve my credibility and objectivity...

I could really care less about expanding the Rockets' global fanbase, and I don't care about fans from China liking the Rockets because of Yao. They place one player above the team, and in my mind, no player ever has that right.

And you know what else? I don't even care if people from other US cities like the Rockets, because the way I look at being a fan is supporting your hometown team. If you don't have one, you pick one close-by. That's what I hate about sports fans, is that so many jump on bandwagons. That's why when I see people whom I know were born in Houston, sporting Lakers jerseys, I want to puke.

I think one should support the team from the city the live in or have previously lived in. And if you're not from the US, pick whichever team you want, I really don't care, as long as you pick a team, not the player. Isn't that what everyone keeps saying is wrong with the NBA? That they're marketing players, not teams? It's okay to support Yao only because it's he's on the Rockets. (Hey, Yao's my favorite player on this team - but if he's not on this team, then he's got no support from me.) But I don't think it's okay to support a team only because of one player. I find it annoying, so I ignore these people. I'm only talking about it now just because it's turned into some massive discussion where some people think this board is on it's way to self-destruction.

[/alienating BBS]

 

By the way, I WILL CALL people "Yao only" if I feel that they are going overboard in terms of TEAM (player) critiques. There's a reason for it. Just as "homers" can have rose colored glasses, individual *player-fans* can too. That *stuff* blinds people.

"Francis/Mobley" dribbling does not go on to the same extent that it used to in the past. Thus, being critical with the same intensity that was needed in the past, is like shooting an ant with a Bazooka. It's unwarranted.

If we loose by 15, Francis has 34 points, 10 turnovers, and the rest of the team has under 12 points. Well, then it's fine to be critical about ball hogging. I'll be there!!!

But if we win by 15, Francis has 19, Yao has 18, Mobley has 17, JJ has 12, Taylor has 17, Boki has 7....Well, yelling out, "Francis/Mobley dribble too much, give the ball to Yao!" is unwarranted.



P.S. Anyone notice that we had 26 team assists?

 

MacJag, give your fingers a rest and check your mail. Your prob is solvable, but Im running short on time tonight.

 

[tangent]You know, I definitely would have agreed with you 3 years ago. Unfortunately, I'm seeing less reason to support a team based on geography by the day.

Once, I think, teams really did have ties to the community. People who lived nearby grew up following them, were more likely to play for them (and still are, say, in in European soccer), and felt the team to represent their city. The Red Sox were part of Boston. Teams had characteristics of their community. There was a symbiotic relationship.

The Texans may be located in Houston. But I don't think they're really of Houston. They're a collection of millionaires currently being paid to work for a franchise that just happens to be there. How many of the players are from Houston? I'm not sure how many even feel that much of a connection with the city. The average Houstonian certainly doesn't have much in common with those players that they don't have in common with any other NFL player.

Sorry, the connections that used to be there just aren't anymore, at least nearly to the same degree. I happen to root pretty much entirely for Houston teams as well. But it's because I grew up rooting for them, not because they represent any the city where I used to live.

Sadly, liking a team for their style of play is probably less arbitrary now than rooting for a team because of their circumstantial geography.

[/tangent]

 

People will no doubt villify me for this, but I'd love to see a members-only area of the Clutch BBS with a monthly membership fee. It needn't be a huge fee, but enough to keep out the multitude of people who find the site, post a flurry of inane messages and start pointless threads, then go away a week or two later. I could be wrong, but I suspect it might also keep out people who are more likely to resort to flaming.

The free version of the BBS could remain in place. The members-only area would be an add-on. Just a thought.

Okay, light your torches, villagers. I'm ready.