I can understand that perspective and can respect your thoughts, and I'm hesitant to really go in on this for Green. But just as an exercise, as I enjoy studying the game let's go a little further. Everyone has a right to their opinion and so not saying anyone is right/wrong just presenting the info for others to decide for themselves. Here are the Rockets' Team leaders in Raptor, which uses BPM, RPM, and some box score data. it's important to keep in mind Tari was a year one Rookie, and Alperen was Year two and KPJ was in year three. Alperen is also a year younger, but also played professionally in Turkey for experience over Tari. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/ Also, Tari is a unique player, basically if a 'glue guy' had all-star potential and high impact for wins, that is superstar potential IMO. Imagine if PJ Tucker with all his non-box score impact and team defense can also average 20+ points, 10+ rebounds, a few assists, blocks, and high steals. That player helps your team win more than any one-dimensional offense or defense specialist. Here is info on his uniqueness as a Rookie, he will only grow and get better over the years. And here is the BPM you mentioned, I filtered out players who are still on the team. There is a definite argument that can be made on roles, but you keep seeing data suggesting Tari is one of the most high-impact players on the team and is in Year One of his career. I say you develop him as if he was a top 4 draft pick. https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2023.html
Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Charles Barkley, KD are all players who were elite creators or producers on offense but wasnt necessarily elite defenders. And they are ALL not just All-Stars but top 20 of all time. Jabari and Amen definitely has all-star qualities and more, don't you think?
Eason rolled with units especially in the first half the of the regular season that were there when the game was a blow out in the 4th quarter where teams were playing their third stringers. He played almost always against bench units and occasionally against the third stringers Also this ignores the roles and burdens. Tari can inflate things like efficiency numbers(even though he statistically is less efficient scoring wise than Green) while Green has to take the brunt of poor team play where for example a half court set goes nowhere and a teammate who had the ball in their hands with 10 seconds left try to instinctively find Green and he has to take these shots with time running out constantly like this example of what I'm referring to: Seek to 5:56 Green has burdens Tari doesn't. He isn't asked to have the ball dumped to him with seconds left and do something out of nothing. Green is tasked to do something out of nothing more than anyone on the team.
Jabari has all-star qualities. Amen has superstar qualities. Elite dribble seperation is a trait that you can mold into a superstar. Jabari has offensive ability to be a solid offensive high end role player. Amen has the potential to build an entire offense around him
Good example of what I'm referring to. Is it a coincidence that two of our best bench players in Tate and Tari are the highest and 3 of our best starters are below them? No it's because those on/off numbers are based on them playing more against bench units. When Green is on the court, guys like Luka, Embid, Harden, Lebron etc are on the court because Green marches the rotations of the opposing starters.
As of today Jalen Green, but I'll have no problem with somebody coming and taking that title from him.
What we witnessed in Summer League was the offense going through Smith. Yes the level of competition was lower than regular season, but the reason he looked so different was team played different. Would his touches been the same with, FVV, Green, Sengun and Brooks? Does he touch the ball at the end of the game? We may never know what Smith could be because there are other that feed before him. Silas ran no plays for him because there is only one ball and Green & Porter needed it => Sengun the same to an lesser extent.
It's true Green has burdens Tari doesn't I agree, but I think it's also true Tari has burdens and does things Green can't do. They are two different players and roles but Tari is a two-way player. Green hasn't shown he can defend to impact the game to win like Tari can beyond offense. He can eventually be great on offense and become a well-rounded two way superstar, I want Green to be that guy. But it's ironic because when Tari was starting and playing against starters, not bench players, his numbers actually got Better, as did his impact as a Rookie: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/easonta01/splits/2023 When Tari was given 30+ minutes a game, which would have included playing in mixed situations against some starters, he got better. He also had almost 60% True Shooting efficiency on offense, I say give him more minutes. Here is a game he started against GSW with Klay, Steph, Draymond, and Looney as the starters he was playing against. He played 30 minutes and was the Rockets leading scorer, rebounder, and stealer, with the lowest turnovers of the starters. Box score: Green played that game as well https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202303200HOU.html Edit the video didn't show highlights.
There were no plays drawn for Jalen Green his rookie year. When you are a significantly better ball handler you can force your way into a self creator role even if you were designed to stand in a corner by your coaches. Green talented his way to that role. Jabari could also. Nothing different he couldn't try that Green did at 19 in his rookie year. Jalen's talent is a talent that creates havoc on defenses by constantly being able to blow by defenders leading to help defense which leads to open teammates. Green has similar issues to a young Booker or Ant in wanting to do the the highlight scoring play with a double clutch lay up rather than finding the open corner shooter or big you've created space for. Maturity, reps, training all can help him make those reads better. Still Green had a lot more assists than turnovers unlike Jabari who averaged the same amount of turnovers than assists. Why? Because if you create space for teammates so often with your dribble seperation ability the more often you will naturally find the easy read for the open man. Green definitely can make the easy read and with how often he blows by perimeter defenses and draws help defenders he often just has to make the easy reads. When he learns to make the more advanced reads more consistently I wouldn't be surprised if Green is a 6-7 apg type player. But I just can't see Jabari ever being that. In today's league almost all positions if you are to become a superstar, you have to be at least a somewhat above average playmaker for teammates. Green has the capacity for that. I don't think he'll ever be an elite playmaker for others but at least above average in his prime. I don't think Jabari does. Also summer league defenses are some of the worst you'll see in pro basketball. Teams are assembled like a week ago. No unit cohesion. Simple mistakes made all the time. Look at Chet's buckets and see how many of them came from 6'5" guards switching on to him on the roll action.
I mean it's a single game dude. Green also plays a lot more minutes. A lot more strain on him. Look at what happens to Mikal Bridges. A perimeter defensive force for the Suns and a high level role player on offense. Similar to what Jabari is supposed to become but in a smaller wing form. Look what happened when he went to the Nets and became the lead offensive player. He dropped in the negative with his defensive analytics like DBPM, something he's never been in his career except as a rookie.
We can agree to disagree, I brought numbers and facts you can have a right to your own opinion. Greens' role as the offense/scorer is different from Tari's as a two-way player, but the impact on winning is different IMO as shown when Eason starts or plays starter's minutes like Green. If both were starting we can see a clearer picture with a larger sample, but draft position justifications, money, and roles on the team can affect things. I'd like to see players truly earn minutes based on who contributes to winning this year. Just sharing info, it's fine to feel how you do.
Two-way is really thrown out so willy nilly. A elite defensive player and a good offensive role player isn't a "two way player" Two way players are elite offensive player and elite defensive players. Gianni, Kawhi, Embid, prime Chris Paul, prime Kobe, Hakeem etc. Is there a special unique trait of Tari's that allows one to have a offensive system built around that trait? Green does with his elite dribble seperation. I'm not saying build the entire offense around Green. But you can build a large part of your offense around that trait. That what I think of when I think of higher ceiling players or "franchise players". I can see Green being a above average playmaker. Not an elite one but at least above average. I don't see that with Tari. Like, Green will never be a player who will average more turnovers than assists. Tari is a player who is.
i gotta say FVV... i mean... suppose if our whole roster became unrestricted free agents at the beginning of free agency - with length of service not being a factor... who gets the biggest payday? idk maybe im wrong and Jabari or Green or maybe even Sengun gets a bigger overall contract due to teams being willing to give them longer contracts due to their age... but idk if anybody else on our roster would warrant 3/130... now u may question if FVV warrants that... but thats what the open market provided... who else on our roster gets that contract?
I like Fred but if he is your franchise player might as well clean house and start over because you are winning 0 championships
Two way players are not naturally two way superstars. They could be but in the rarest cases. Tari can be a lot better than he is being used here.
Fair. There can be levels. But as long as Green becomes a competent average defender, the elite offensive player and average defender is valued higher than an elite defender and good offensive role player.
Tari is not in the best situation where he can start majority of games so his development is likely limited as high end role player. Situations are different everywhere. Talking about franchise player is way too early. A player has to make 1-2 All Star appearances and then we can talk.
