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7.8 Earthquake strikes China

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by rocketsjudoka, May 12, 2008.

  1. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    I have read some rivers are blocked and some dams are cracking. People are being evacuated from seveal areas in danger of resulting floods.
     
  2. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    I guess you can always write a check and it will get there in about a week.

    Chinese banks are dropping all transaction charges for donations.

    本會「網上捐款」網頁現正在進行緊急維修,服務將延遲於2008年5月16日上午9時正分恢復,不便之處敬請原諒.Online Donation Page is under urgent maintenance. Service will be resumed on 16 May 2008, 9:00 a.m. Please accept our apology for any inconvenience caused.

    市民可將捐款直接存入下列「香港紅十字會中國賑災金」戶口 You could donate directly through the following bank accounts of our “Hong Kong Red Cross China Relief Fund”:

    滙豐銀行HSBC: (004)-567-650155-016
    恒生銀行 Heng Sang Bank (024)-267-175123-001
    中國銀行:Bank of China (012)-806-0-000161-7
    東亞銀行 Bank of East Asia (015)-514-40-39966-3

    或以劃線支票:抬頭「香港紅十字會中國賑災金」寄回香港夏慤道33 號香港紅十字會國際及賑災服務部。Or send a crossed cheque with the payee name “Hong Kong Red Cross China Relief Fund” to the International & Relief Service Department, Hong Kong Red Cross at 33 Harcout Road, Hong Kong.

    亦可到全港各7.11 便利店,以現金捐款。捐款時請註明捐予香港紅十字會。Or donate with cash through 7-eleven stores. You just simply indicate “Hong Kong Red Cross” as beneficiary organization.

    查詢熱線Donation Hotline: 2802-0021

    Great, HongKong redcross online donation page is down as well, what is the deal?? :mad:
     
  3. yuantian

    yuantian Contributing Member

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    i found the online transaction, but they would NOT take my freaking zip code. cause it's only 5 digits instead of the 6 digits in China. :mad: i guess i will just mail a check to their Beijing address then.
     
  4. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    I think that will be just fine and it will get there in about a week.
     
  5. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    Hopefuly, they've gotten so many donations that it overloaded their systems.
     
  6. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    I am guessing that is something like that, I hope someone donate some severs to them.
     
  7. olliez

    olliez Contributing Member

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    Yuantian, thanks for the concern.

    This is website set up entirely by friends, volunteers, we have negotiated with Washington Mutual, Google and PayPal, the foundation had been approved by IRS for 501C(3) status.

    http://tsinghuafoundation.org/earthquake08/index.html

    Thanks again to friends all over the world.

    Gracias.
     
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I've never worked in WA state so I can't comment that much about them but from personal experience working on architecture projects in CA I can tell you they are very strict on enforcing building codes through plan inspections of submitted plans to get building permits, inspections during construction and prior to opening of projects. There is always the temptation to take shortcuts but that is a matter of how much the inspectors enforce the codes and CA they generally seem to be vigilant about that.

    As for having government step in to protect against once in a lifetime disaster the function of building codes isn't to prevent everything possible and there is no way you can make an absolutely earthquake proof building, fire proof or hurricane proof. It is a matter of balancing out reasonably predicted risk versus costs and practicality of building. In a place like CA where there is a known earthquake risk it makes sense to address that while everywhere there is a risk of fire so fire is always considered in codes.

    One interesting debate is how much should codes take into account the danger of terrorists attacks since they are far rarer than any other disaster. From my knowledge it seems like codes haven't been adjusted for terrorist attacks but many clients on their own have sought to put in anti terrorists measures into prominent buildings, like barriers to prevent truck bombs from driving up to the building, and the US government has written into their own guidelines for government buildings preventive measures.

    One last note on building codes while I'm rambling here. Building codes to address disasters aren't generally written to ensure the overall survival of the building but that it can withstand the initial disaster long enough to evacuate people from it. For example fire codes are written in hour ratings to determine how long something can withstand a fire intime to evacuate. So an earthquake code wouldn't necessarily mean a building that can survive the earthquake unscathed just that it would hold up long enough to get people out of it.
     
  9. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    My guess is that California has the best earthquake building codes in the world, and has a whole lot more $$$ to spend on expensive building plan modifications than about 99% of the world, and has much more seismic activity than Sichuan. Is it really fair to compare with central China? I think if you compare the Midwest USA, where they've been talking about another mega-disaster like the New Madrid earthquake, the codes and enforcement would compare unfavorably with California. So if you take a location that has been relatively poor for the past 50 years and has much lower seismic activity and compare that to California, then of course it will seem deficient by comparison.

    The first thing that I thought of to compare this to was the relatively minor Bam earthquake in Iran in 2003 (I say relatively minor because it was still a tremendously large and destructive earthquake resulting in very large loss of life). It is not a great comparison either, but seems more appropriate than comparing to the Bay Area. In comparison, China looks pretty good.

    Since the so-called 'Rise of China' in the last few years and the relative increased value placed on individuals in the political thinking of the CPC, I think this is the first major natural disaster like this. Thirty years ago they would have perhaps handled it like Myanmar is handling the cyclone. I don't want to speak for the Chinese people, but I don't know how much I would blame the government for 35 year old deficiencies which originated during the time of Mao. I would be more concerned with how the new government goes foreward from here and learns from the disaster.
     
  10. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    More reports of strong aftershocks and damage to dams. Its possible that this disaster still might get worse. In positive news more rescue teams including expert foreign teams are getting to the scene.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24642170

    [rquoter]Aftershocks spark landslides at quake epicenter
    Anger over collapsed schools grows as China's official death toll hits 21,500

    BEICHUAN, China - A strong aftershock sparked landslides near the epicenter of this week's powerful earthquake Friday, burying vehicles and again cutting off ravaged areas of central China.

    Elsewhere, rescuers were still finding survivors after being buried in rubble for 96 hours, while public anger grew over the hundreds of children crushed to death in schools that collapsed in Monday's magnitude 7.9 temblor. More than four days since the disaster, the first foreign rescue workers were allowed to the scene.

    An aftershock rattled parts of central Sichuan province Friday afternoon, the official Xinhua News Agency said, citing its reporters at the scene. A number of vehicles were buried on a road leading to the epicenter, and casualties were unknown.

    The U.S. Geological Survey said the latest tremor measured magnitude 5.5 and was centered 6.2 miles below the surface, a relatively shallow quake like the initial disaster.

    The government raised the death toll to 21,500 but has said fatalities could rise above 50,000. Tens of thousands could still be buried in collapsed buildings in Sichuan province, where the quake was centered, officials say.

    President visits disaster zone
    President Hu Jintao made his first trip to the disaster zone, rallying troops among the massive relief operation of some 130,000 soldiers and police.

    "The challenge is still severe, the task is still arduous and the time is pressing," Hu was quoted as saying by Xinhua. "Quake relief work has entered into the most crucial phase. We must make every effort, race against time and overcome all difficulties to achieve the final victory of the relief efforts."

    A Japanese rescue crew arrived early Friday — the first international relief workers in the disaster zone. China initially was reluctant to accept foreign offers of help, but the Foreign Ministry said early Friday that specialist teams from Russia, South Korea and Singapore also were welcome.

    Singapore's Foreign Ministry said a 55-member team would arrive in Sichuan later Friday.

    It was the first time ever that China accepted outside professionals for domestic disaster relief, Foreign Ministry counselor Li Wenliang told Xinhua.

    Anger over schools' collapse
    Chinese government officials, meanwhile, struggled to answer questions from angry citizens on why so many schools collapsed in Monday's earthquake. They vowed to punish anyone responsible for shoddy construction.

    In a rare online exchange with ordinary Chinese, the first measure of the number of destroyed schoolrooms — 6,898 — emerged, with figures still to come from the hardest-hit areas.

    "If quality problems do exist in the school buildings, we will punish those responsible severely and give the public a satisfactory answer," Han Jin, head of the Ministry of Education's development and planning department, said on a state-run forum.

    In one case, a high school in Juyuan collapsed in seconds, killing all but a handful of the 900 students. In Mianzhu, close to where Hu arrived, seven fallen schools buried 1,700 people, Xinhua said, and about 1,300 bodies have been recovered so far.

    Another 700 students were thought to be buried in a school in Hanwang town. Farther north in Beichuan, about 700 students were also still buried.

    Nurse pulled from rubble
    A day past what experts call the critical three-day window for finding buried survivors alive, rescuers pulled a nurse to safety who had been trapped for 96 hours in the debris of a clinic in Beichuan county. Two other victims were rescued alive elsewhere in that area.

    On the road leading into Beichuan, police restricted the last couple miles to emergency vehicles. Military trucks and cranes edged around fallen boulders. Dozens of people searching for relatives also trudged up the winding mountain road, carrying backpacks and bags with food and medical supplies.

    Liu Jingyong, a 43-year-old migrant worker searching for his cousin, traveled two days by bus and now by foot to get near his relative's home.

    "I have not had any information from him," Liu said. "This is so hard on me."

    One villager, Pan Guihui, stood on the side of the road with a vacant look on her face. She and her husband hiked 13 hours with her 1-year-old child, father and two brothers away from their destroyed village farther up the mountain. They had stayed in the rubble until rescue workers arrived and ordered them out over landslide fears.

    "I have just been so frightened this whole time. I don't know what we are going to do," said Pan, 35. The only belongings the family had were some clothes and a little food. "We've lost everything. There's nothing left of our village, nothing left of our home."

    New landslides likely
    China's Ministry of Land and Resources warned that heavy rains forecast for the next few days would likely set off new landslides. The ministry said on its Web site that local authorities "must immediately mark off danger zones" to ensure rescue workers' safety.

    The government said it had allocated a total 5.4 billion yuan, about $772 million, for earthquake relief, according to the central bank's Web site, up more than 380 percent from the money allocated two days ago.

    Given the widespread destruction, AIR Worldwide — a catastrophe risk modeling firm — estimated losses to both insured and uninsured property would likely exceed $20 billion.
    [/rquoter]
     
  11. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I agree and I don't want to blame the PRC government but examining the history of building codes and how they were enforced is going to be important. In almost every recent major earthquake where there has been a signifigant loss of life, such as Bam and in Turkey, shoddy building, poor codes and lax enforcement of building codes has been pointed out as contributing to the disaster. In moving forward to prepare for future earthquakes the PRC is going to have to take a hard look at its building codes as much as CA or anywhere else with a earthquake risk has.
     
  12. yuantian

    yuantian Contributing Member

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    it really doesn't have much to do with the government. i am from the neighboring province. people build same type of buildings. farmers and small town folks basically build their own houses. they hire cheap labor to save money. it's part of the economic development. they are not going to have the money to build better buildings. if you enforce the building code, which there are strict ones, a lot people can't live in big houses. they are not going to care about the building code if there haven't been earthquakes there for generations. as i was growing up, i never even heard of earthquake stories in that area. so of course they are not going to bother. they want to save money. it's a slow process just like everything else. they are not going to replace all the buildings, there are no money/resources. so hopefully china gets richer faster so old buildings get replaced faster. the real question is, why the **** are all the school buildings, hospitals, government buildings ****ty. i know they didn't expect the earthquakes, but i would think somebody is going to be responsble. government will probably exam all public service buildings in the future and upgrade if necessary. but private houses are not going to change for a while.
     
  13. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    judoka, I have no reason to doubt many volunteers and ARC staffs are doing a commendable job helping victims of disasters, but I also think all too often their effort is limited by the flawed institutional policy established at higher level.

    Also, given the initial response and reaction by U.S. government in Katrina, arriving ahead of government agency at the scene is NOT a very high bar to cross, I am afraid.

    I called ARC donor hotline, asking how monetary donation to China earthquake relief will be handled. Unfortunately, the answer given by the ARC staff was far from satisfactory, further reinforcing my position that the specific donation for this devastating event ought to be better sent elsewhere.

    You see, it took disaster victims' complaint, media scrutiny, and Congressional hearing/investigation to press ARC to get its priority straight. Do you really think any Congressional oversight committee gives a damn about when and how much the donation in ARC goes to China? I don't intend to further drag this thread into a debate on ARC, but my argument for not sending donation to ARC for the China earthquake relief (as a first choice, I shall add) stands nonetheless.

    Well jack rhada, I fail to see, other than "Red," any connection between ARC and Commie China in the context. Go jerk off about human race at another time.
     
  14. rockmanslim

    rockmanslim Member

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    Highly informative. You (I) learn something new everyday. Much appreciated. :)
     
  15. yuantian

    yuantian Contributing Member

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    finally got around to donate. going to mail the check tomorrow with my parents' check. i got them to match my check, which is basically the economic stimulus rebate check.
     
  16. heech

    heech Contributing Member

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    Just wanted to quickly say ... awesome. Every penny literally counts.
     
  17. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    There's always a tradeoff and residential even in the US is the area where the enforcement and codes are the most lax. Individual houses especially in rural areas where incomes and enforcement is low we can probably never expect them even in rich countries to meet the same standards but things like government institutions, large residential projects and large commercial projects should be expected to have better code enforcement.

    Obviously building codes are self-defeating if they are so strict that no one can build anything but at the same time given what we know about construction to protect against disaster there should be something to prevent people from just building anything when with reasonable foresight written into codes many lives can be saved.
     
  18. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I'm not going to deny that the ARC has its problems and institutional bureaucracy and inefficiency is one of their biggest. The other problem I think is that they often fail to explain exactly how they operate. Every large institution though has its problems and for all of the ARC's problems they still do a lot of good work and money donated to the ARC will go to help disaster victims. What is unclear though to most people is given the scope of any particular disaster is whether it will go to that disaster or go to prepare for the next one.

    I can tell you as an ARC volunteer that while most of what I've done is fill out paperwork in the end I have personally seen that victims are fed and shelter is provided.

    Whether you feel that your money is better given to another organization that is your priority and as smart donors everyone should do some research about where their money goes to avoid scams, but I wouldn't say that giving money to the ARC is going to be a scam or a waste.
     
  19. ucsd

    ucsd Rookie

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    heech Contributing Member

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