I wish everyone would kiss and make up, too. Hakeem belongs here, at least for another year. Maybe two, I dunno how his frame will hold up... I will dream about Hakeem wearing a uni with a stupid purple dinosaur on the chest tonight, and he will dunk on a lethargic white guy named Jason, and he will walk the other way saying "You should ave listened to me in practice, baby", and I will wake up in a cold sweat... ------------------
BINGO! Thank you. Brilliant. This post should be framed. ------------------ Protrolls.com! Keep the ???? alive! The ZRBucks!
First off -- I would rather overpay for Dream's services than overpay for Webbers -- I think $10mil a year (for Dream) is excessive and hope that some reports out there are just rumours. However, I never was comfortable giving Webber the max for 6 plus years - his history in Golden State and Washington made me wary of a long commitment. This thought is for the Jeffs and the oeilpere's out there -- I was thinking about the possibilities for a late-season trade (involving Dream) if we were not in the playoff hunt. I could see teams like Toronto, Indiana, and New York giving up some young talent or a veteran late in the season if they feel Dream could put them over the top. Just because we sign Dream to a multi-year deal doesn't mean he stays here for the length of his contract......... ------------------
Got this article out of the Toronto Star. More stories about Olajuwon and Toronto at this web address:waymoresports.com > Raptors. I read they were offering their 4.5 mil with annual raises in a multi year 22 mil offer. Olajuwon good fit for Raps, price is right Jul. 20, 2001. 02:00 AM Chris Young BASKETBALL COLUMNIST THE RAPTORS are just about finished throwing their money around. But they're not quite done yet, or at least they shouldn't be. What's a few more million between friends, especially if it could mean a critical final piece to fill a roster hole? So far this summer, general manager Glen Grunwald has been in a damned-if-he-does, damned-if-he-doesn't kind of spot. He has raided the Maple Leaf family vault a couple of times to make withdrawals large enough to convince Antonio Davis, Alvin Williams and Jerome Williams to stay in Canada. Put those three back in purple, and the stated aims of continuity and familiarity have been accomplished, even if some sceptics including this one wonder about the cost. But with this first wave of free-agent frenzy abating, the money wells around the league are drying up and there will be opportunities to pick up a bargain if you're in the mood. And while much of this is out of their hands and there are plenty of ifs to surmount, such an opportunity might pop up. If the Houston Rockets falter in their attempts to re-sign future hall of famer Hakeem Olajuwon, the Raptors should be positioning themselves to take over. And why not? If he is healthy after a season in which he missed 24 games due to illness and injury, Olajuwon is a player who would make so much sense to them. Put him in the Toronto lineup to take some of the pressure off Davis up front, and this is a balanced, mentally stronger team assured of being able to win the Eastern Conference - and perhaps grab their ultimate prize in the form of a contract extension keeping Vince Carter here for a long time. For now, all of that is blue-sky thinking. Olajuwon may well stay with the Rockets, who like the Raptors and just about every other NBA team this summer have turned their attentions to re-signing their in-house free agents. Maurice Taylor, Shandon Anderson and Moochie Norris join Olajuwon on that shopping list. If nothing else, Olajuwon may in the end owe the Raptors nothing more than a thank-you for their interest. Coach Lenny Wilkens met with Olajuwon in Houston on Tuesday to make the club's pitch. There is a little left in the kitty after peeling off Charles Oakley's $6.5 million ticket from under their cap, and replacing him with the cheaper and younger Brian Skinner, a rather shrewd bit of horse-trading by Grunwald. That move enabled Grunwald to save $5 million or so. The Raps are about $10 million underneath their $52 million budget, so fitting Al Williams and the Dream both in may be problematic but not impossible. Taken purely on his own merits, Olajuwon intrigues. For a while last season, it looked like retirement would be his first option this summer, when injury and illness had him looking like a mere shell of the man who led the Rockets to back-to-back titles in the spring of 1994 and '95. Even if the Dream Shake is a thing of the past, his 38-year-old bones did bounce back in the second half of the season. For most other NBAers, crossing the country in a covered wagon would be preferable than moving from Texas and its low tax rates, to Canada. It is a perceptual thing that still looms large in many players' minds, but Olajuwon, with a summer home in B.C., doesn't appear to have that mindset. Of course there are questions that have to be answered, primarily relating to health and how much is left in the Dream's tank, but also concerning how happy he would be as a role player, and whether it would be wise on the Raptors' part to commit to him for three seasons.Then there is the ultimate question of money. He made $16.5 million last season - how steep will the pay cut be this year? Contemporary Pat Ewing has gone from a $14 million man in Seattle to $2.25 mil' in Orlando, to offer just one example. Olajuwon will cost more, but no matter. For Toronto, there is no one left who would fit better. ------------------
I agree with ZRB and Lynus302. And I will repeat myself and say that Hakeem deferred to much Barkley in past years. He learned how to play with Barkley, both like the left box so Hakeem step out to shoot mid range jumpers and seemed to try and establish moves from the right box. ------------------
"I'll admit that I am very sentimental towards Hakeem. Moses Malone, Elvin Hayes, Nolan Ryan, Earl Campbell. Dammit, I want a legend to start here and finish here." I won't be upset if Hakeem leaves as long as the Rockets don't trade him or fail to offer him a reasonable contract. Like most fans I never understood any of the big trades -Malone, Hayes, Ryan, Campbell. But I understand the deal with Hakeem. 22 mil over two years is too much for 10/5, 30 games. That's if he is healthy enough to play at all. I really believe Hakeem does not want to be a backup to a potential backup - Cato. ------------------
I hope he stays for selfish reasons. I want the Rockets to be in the playoffs next year, and I don't want to see Dream in another uniform. Without Dream I don't honestly think we are a plyoff team with Collier/Cato at center. But business is business. If Dream wants to goto Canada to play that is fine. However if his contention is he isn't a part of the offense, just wait until he plays with Vince. I hope he stays but if he leaves he leaves. It's a business and people have to make tuff decisions.
Aelliott, The idea about renouncing Shandon and using the MCE on him is to never slip below $7m in capspace. That can be done. You are forgetting that we can sign Moochie to a raise before renouncing Shandon if need be. Plus, we can sign Griffin to 120% of his current cap hit. By my math and timing, we can most definitely sign Dream to $10m and Mo to $6m and Shandon to the MCE and Moochie to $1-2m. That works. It is just a matter of timing the Shandon renouncement, and getting Dream, Griffin and Moochie signed to whatever it takes to prevent falling below $7m. btw: Do you think that $24m number by Feagan is correct? Is he forgetting Malone or MacLean, et al? cp, Slipping below $7M isn't the problem that I was refering to. In fact, it's not really an issue in this situation. I was bringin up the fact that everyone is forgetting that the $4.5M exception also counts against the cap. I haven't seen that factored into the amount of available cap space in any of these calculations. Let me try to explain. Let's start with our best case of available cap space and work backwards: Best case you've got ~$17M in potential cap space (that's if you renounce all players and exceptions). I don't know if the Chronicle is correct, but if anything it's high. Now, as long as we keep that Mid-class exception (and renounce all other exceptions), then our available cap space is reduced to $17M - $4.5M = $12.5M. The reason for this is that that exception still counts against the cap. Next, go pay Hakeem a $10M first year salary. What you've got left is $2.5M in cap space. At this point we'd still have our exceptions. Norris' cap hold number would reduce another ~$700k off of the available cap, so you're left with ~$1.8M to work with. Anderson's cap hold is something like ~$2.7M (I'm too lazy to look up the actuals). So, at this point, with our committed contracts, mid level exception, Norris' cap hold and Anderson's cap hold, we'd be just over the cap (by ~$900k) If Taylor takes the mid level, then we're ok and we can exceed the cap to resign Anderson and Norris. However, if Taylor won't take the mid level exception, then the only way to pay Taylor more would be to renounce something. Since we'd be slightly over the cap, renouncing just the exception doesn't allow you to pay Taylor more than him just signing for the exception. Renouncing Moochie would be bad and it wouldn't open up nearly enough cap space. The only way I see to pay Taylor more than $4.5M is to renounce both the exception and Anderson. That would free up enough money to pay Taylor, but there'd be very little left over for Anderson. Also, if we did that (renounce Anderson), then we'd have lost his early bird rights until next summer, so we couldn't exceed the cap to sign him. We also couldn't sign him with an exception since we had to renounce all of them See my point? Does all that make sense? If the Chronicle's number's are indeed high, then we'd have even less cash available. ------------------ [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited July 20, 2001).]
I think that Lynus is looking at Hakeem's action with rose-colored glasses. I don't care if someone's being underutilized; he broke the #1 rule of a team - you never jump ship during a season. It's not like Rudy would have been maliciously underplaying him. Dream wasn't getting many minutes because his coach thought he was best in shorter outings. It's very possible that Rudy was wrong; but that doesn't excuse a mid-season betrayal in the press. That's beneath any player; I've never heard anyone on this BBS defend other players doing this. Although I've heard quite a bit of bashing. I've heard quite a few things lately to justify Hakeem's actions during that stretch; they all strike me as rationalizations. The "it's a business" and "he was underutilized" arguments ring a little hollow most of the time... but when a player is willing to jeopardize his team's position during the season for more playing time... that's wrong. If he wanted to be traded, he should have acted strictly behind the scenes. If anything, going public just hurts the Rockets position in potential trades and makes a deal less likely. And now all this posturing about wanting respect is making me a little queasy. Hakeem didn't respect the Rockets very much this year; why should he get any in return? Loyalty? Can that one after last winter. Talent? 12 and 8 for 50 games or so? Nice, but not exactly Steve Francis... Or Cuttino Mobley... or even Mo Taylor with his youth. I don't understand exactly what Hakeem wants. Usually, you get a feel after a while if an athlete is looking for: 1. respect, 2. the most cash, or 3. to play for a winner. Hakeem seems to vascillate between all of these things. It doesn't come off balanced, so much as indecisive. If he wants to play for a winner, he should go take the minimum from the Lakers. Cash? That's the Rockets. Respect... head to Canada. I just want the posturing to end. Hakeem retiring with another team would be painful enough without all this melodrama during the signing period. ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news. [This message has been edited by haven (edited July 20, 2001).]
aelliott bingo. damn that's right. cheers to aelliott! Even if we renounce the MCE itself, that is still not enough money to go around for Dream, Mo' and SA. So Achebe, check out Aelliott's math, SA is a goner if Mo doesn't take the MCE.
Thanks aelliott! crispee, That partially explains the 4.1m (or was that all Les?) printed by Blinebury last night. Carroll has to play both sides of the coin b/c of Fegan. Too bad it's unethical to ask Moochie to change agents. Shandon is an afterthought now, IMO. If Dream signs elsewhere, I'd either tell Shandon to go **** himself, or sign Shandon w/ the express intention of trading him on 12/15. ------------------ Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen...
I knew there will be a counter offer from CD & CO., but i never thought it will be $10 Mil a year if we can't resign MO T, I rather see Dream to get what he wants and let's move forward. ------------------ Rudy T. will find and fulfill Rockets destiny.
Say it AIN'T SO!!! Look guys, Hakeem ain't gonna get us anywhere. He wants to be a supastaaah, and he isn't anymore. If we pay him more than 6 million for more than one year, we are being too generous. Hakeem only cares about himself his pride, his face, and "respect", which is short for saying that he thinks too highly of himself. The Rockets should be thinking about the future, not the past. I love Hakeem for what he's brought us, but enough is enough. ------------------ Vice-president of the Jason Collier Police
I agree with Lynus302, also. We will be better if not only for his shotblocking presence in the middle. How many teams attacked in the paint once Hakeem went out and Cato came in. There was a definite difference. Hakeem is not selfish, but he does want to establish his presence down low so that the rest of the team can have their way. This Toronto deal must be for four years / 22 mil. I don't see how this is that appealing to Hakeem, unless it is all guaranteed and he only intends to cover two years of it. That just doesn't seem like his personality. He wouldn't do an under the table deal like that. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Rudyball (edited July 20, 2001).]
Achebe, Where did this $10m counter offer come from anyhow? I only see a $4.1m original 1yr extended to 2yrs.
I don't know why Jeff asked about the $10m #. Maybe he got it from his source TRG. ------------------ Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen...
Also Achebe, I don't think this is a money thing with Dream. From all reports, we went with a 1yr offer, and Dream wanted more commitment. So saying we should just pay more like you and ZRB are implying, is not enough for Dream. You should be saying give him more years. That is where I draw the line. I'm siding with Les and CD on that one. If money doesn't matter but a 1yr makes Dream walk, then I can only think he is trying to prove something to Rudy. Screw that. Those mindgames things just piss me off. And no TheFreak, I do not have a quote for that...lol.
All contracts in the NBA are guaranteed. Even if he only plays 2 years, he will count against their cap for the length of the contract. ------------------
Great post Lynus302. That must have sucked for Hakeem during the first part of last season watching Bullard and Thomas finishing the game while he was benched the whole 4th quarter. All I remember is we lost alot of close games during that time of the season. I think if I were Hakeem I would have asked to be traded also. ------------------
BradT1: Actually, that's not completely true. 2nd rounders don't get guaranteed contracts. Also, it's possible that there's a player or team option in the latter part of that hypothetical contract. ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.
