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[538]Westbrook broke BPM and is "pretty badly overrated"

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by justtxyank, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. eliefor3

    eliefor3 Member

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    what statistics do not show is how would Westbrook do playing with another ball distributor like Harden. If they can learn to play off one another than both of them will get something that they have never had
    westbrook would not have to initiate the offense as much and attack a defense not geared towards him
    harden gets to play with a superstar who is still in his prime.
     
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  2. Hippieloser

    Hippieloser Contributing Member

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    Thanks for the examples. Watched a bunch of this video, including the play you mentioned, and I'm not seeing a problem. He has the audacity to want the ball, and he's fast enough to get it! Ok?

    I'm a lot more concerned about stupid two-pointers than I am about rebounds.
     
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  3. scolandry1

    scolandry1 Member

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    Something we've known since his 2016-17 MVP season. Was posting links to the 8+ uncontested defensive rebounds he averaged per game.
     
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  4. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    Lol you don’t see an issue. Wow ok
     
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  5. harold bingo

    harold bingo Iso Only Fan
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    A lot of the time it's not an "issue", as in it's not causing a problem. It's actually a good thing for him to get the rebounds, it helps the team get out in transition. It's just that this needs to be taken into account when people are ooh-ing and ahh-ing over his huge rebound numbers. It gives context to the real value of those rebounds.

    It does become a problem when he decides to stand still under the basket and not play defense so that he's in position for a rebound. It's the reason he contests the lowest number of shots of any guard in the league who plays heavy minutes. He never contests shots because he's never close to his man, because he stands around waiting for rebounds instead of playing defense. I hope he doesn't do this in Houston.
     
  6. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Nailed it.

    From a statistical view, the “problem” is that prior models gave big credit to guards getting rebounds because a guard who was adding to the rebound total was an advantage. When the guard is being given the rebounds though that would otherwise go to his teammates it’s breaking the model because the value they assumed from those extra rebounds isn’t really there.

    Imagine an Easter egg hunt. If we say anyone over 5 gets 10 dollars for every egg they find but under 5 gets 20 because they’ll be at a disadvantage. If the older kids just surround the eggs and let the under 5 pick them all up the assumption that they were at a disadvantage was manipulate. At that point they aren’t actually worth the 20, but if we were to decide who was the best hunter based on dollars the young kid would dominate.
     
  7. Highlyrated

    Highlyrated Member

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    People bring Westbrook bad shooting to light and highlight it,im not mad at that if they have a point ,but Russ brings more to a team than what they realise.He will now Have another playmaker in harden that will get him more open shots,and will now see more one on one because of the spacing the rockets system implements, meaning his shooting percentage at the 3 and within 5 ft will go up.Apart from that Russ bring playmaking ability and rebounding something the Rockets struggled last year. Russ was #1in the league last year in assist ,yes even more than Harden and rebounding was definitely a weakness last year in the playoffs. Russ is more than just lightning in a bottle, he brings heart,passion,toughness ,grit and the determination to win at all cost ,The dude averaged a triple double for 3 straight seasons .Yes he got his flaws but u got to love a player who gives it his all each and every single night.
     
  8. Game7

    Game7 Member

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    You don’t see the complete lack of defensive effort? You don’t see him going up to “battle” his own guys for the rebound? It is reckless all around. The one benefit is solely to WB who gets more rebounds. Rebounds that would’ve gone to his team anyway.
    I used to enjoy laughing at these videos. Now this is the stuff nightmares are made of.
    Here’s hoping we can coach the triple double mentality out of his head...and yet somehow he still manages to put up good numbers. Confusing. I know.
     
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  9. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    These are the downsides to be sure.

    The upside is that he also gets the hustle rebounds that people aren’t paying attention to or don’t put the effort forth to get.

    As long as the break the triple double mentality there can be value in getting those second set of rebounds but you have to wonder if he’ll still care about those if no triple double anymore
     
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  10. Houston288South

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    Westbrook is OUR guy now. Period. Let's go!
     
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  11. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Westbrook has generally been pretty good by on/off and plus/minus data

    Not sure I trust a new box score metric
     
  12. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    One of the reasons our rebounding took a huge step back was because we lost our rebounding SF's. WB could really help by stepping into the void left behind. We will see though.
     
  13. BeardNation13

    BeardNation13 Member

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    You should just follow me. You are clearly my biggest fan. Just follow me and I'll make sure your basketball knowledge and real life acumen and IQ improve drastically.

    @Rasheed will give you periodic tests to prove that..
     
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  14. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

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    I would take Curry's offence over any PG not named Harden 10000 times out of 10000.

    But I think you missed the point.
     
  15. Game7

    Game7 Member

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    I am looking forward to the times where he gets those rebounds that I didn’t see our guys going after often enough last year. Some added transition offense would be great too!
     
  16. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    A big boxing out his man for his guard to get a board because he is not in position to easily get it and the guard is, that's a good thing. A big boxing out his man simply to let his guard get a board for triple double stat padding purposes, that's a bad thing. OKC and WB were guilty quite often with the latter, but some of it might be that WB has a good nose for where the ball will end up after a miss and is in position before the big gets there so the big blocks out for WB which would be a mostly good thing.
     
  17. Hippieloser

    Hippieloser Contributing Member

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    This is where I'm at. Even when he's not in perfect position, he seems to get there before his teammates can even react. The play where we're saying "He's not even playing defense!" seemed to be a broken play with nobody to pass to on the weak side that resulted in a crummy shot that bricked. Rebound Thunder.

    I know a lot of people think his team helped him stat pad (why they wouldn't want to pad their own stats, I have no idea... they're playing for money). I never bought into that. I still think averaging a triple double is pretty impressive. I'm not saying he's the second coming of the Big O, but I don't think he's stealing rebounds from his own guys somehow.

    I look forward to a compilation of his "cheap" assists, too. lol
     
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  18. dmoneybangbang

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    At this point, Westbrook has become underrated. Can't wait for the 2019 season!
     
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  19. dmoneybangbang

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    Heh. Found something that agrees with you after they didn't drop the Rockets.....

    If Russ is grabbing rebounds that lead to a fast break, is that cheap? Russ obviously doesn't rebound as good as the numbers at face value say but its not all negative.

    What about his assists? How do you pad assists?
     
  20. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    They are going to drop the rockets not sure what you mean? Agreed with me? It isn’t my opinion, they quoted their own article and said they would adjust it over the next few weeks after the change the model.

    They still could have rockets first though I have no clue
     

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