5 More GI's killed today in Iraq. Is it worthwhile?

I support this war, but I can guarantee you that the loss of life bothers me terribly. I never hear of a death that it doesn't bother me. Why must people paint with such a broad brush?

I'll tell you what does disgust me: People like glynch who use tragedies solely to make political statements. I don't know him personally, so I could be wrong; but that's the way his posts always sound to me. They always come across as though scoring political points is the most important thing.

 

I might be remembering incorrectly, but didn't Saddam considered himself at war with America? It isn't like Germany had invaded the east coast when we went to war. Heck, the Russians, English, Canadians, and others may have beaten Germany without a single Nazi weapon being fired on the US. From that perspective, the third Reich was no more a threat to the US than Baathist Iraq.

Not that I think we went to war with Germnay to save the Jews. I am pretty sure we were involved in the war effort prior to Germany's declaration of war against us

 

Yes it was worth it. Saddam is the bad guy. It is the job of the good guys to go after the bad guys. Any 6 year old could tell you that.

If it's our job to after the bad guys, and we haven't gone after North Korea, Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, all the cruel dictators in Africa, etc, do you believe Bush is doing a woefully bad job?

 

1) You are remembering incorrectly. Saddam repeatedly said he was no threat to the US, let alone saying he was at war with us.

2) As soon as Germany declared war on the US, they launched Operation Drumbeat, which was an extreley effective and widespread attack on all American shipping, sinking hundreds of ships, both military and mercantile, all acorsoss the Atlantic seaboard, from NYC harbour to the Gulf of Mexico. Yes, they were a threat.

3) Among the many considerations given to sending troops overseas was that, once the fight was brought to us, it was vastly preferrable to engaging in that fight in someone else's backyard. Look at the effect that 2 world wars had on England and France; were it not for that destruction, they US would not have become the superpower that it did.

4) It is quite possible that the Nazis could have been beaten without the US entering the war, but A) If they didn;t the US would have been alone against the mightiest power in the world, a situation that the UK, with much more experienced personel and command had not enjoyed and B) Had that happened, it is almost without doubt that the USSR would have emereged as far and away the dominant power in the world.

But in the end, it doesn;t matter to the point; the reason we went to war had nothing whatsoever to do with the Holocaust. We didn;t really know that much about it, and cared less. As a matter of fact, pre-war, the Nazis originally tried to ship out the Jews rather than put them in camps...and many of them got as far as Ellis Island. We sent them back.

 

Let's turn the tables here! Which one of you anti-war heroes will volunteer to go up the the friends and families of dead American soldiers and tell them that their friend/loved on died for nothing?

Just a though.

 

Let's turn the tables here! Which one of you anti-war heroes will volunteer to go up the the friends and families of dead American soldiers and tell them that their friend/loved on died for nothing?

Just a though.

What does this have to do with anything? They either died for nothing or not. You're surely not saying we should say a war was justified so we wouldn't have to tell people that their kids died for nothing?

 

a lot of them already feel this way. if you had lost someone in this war, would you feel it was worth it?

 

Wow, you stone cold busted us.

 

Giddy, as I have some respect for you, I'm gonna chalk this up to a brain cramp or a drunk post rather than point out it's glaring problems.

 

12 million people is alot of people...

 

12 million people is alot of people...

Although presumably, 6 million of them are women, and they will be infinitely worse off than they were if the Iraqi council has its way and subjects them to Islamic law.

 

IF you want to disregard all the statements we made pre-war clarifying exactly what our real reasons for going were, and concentrate on this aspect, and IF you want to convlince yourself that it's not just a desperate attempt to salvage US pride out of a self-inflicted disaster, or an excuse for other, less honorable reasons for choosing Iraq, I then have this response;

Do you know how many hundreds of millions are out there right now, living under worse conditions, waiting for our rescue?

 

Define a "just war."

Some definitions of "just":

1. Honorable and fair in one's dealings and actions: a just ruler. See Synonyms at fair1.

2. Consistent with what is morally right; righteous: a just cause.

3. Properly due or merited: just deserts.

4. Law. Valid within the law; lawful: just claims.

5. Suitable or proper in nature; fitting: a just touch of solemnity.

6. Based on fact or sound reason; well-founded: a just appraisal.


To some, the term "just war" would be an oxymoron. When Bush showed the evidence that Iraq had, or was capable of making, WMD, I was all for the war. We were told that it was just a matter of time that they would be found. Still, we have no WMD. Like many of the anti-war posters on here, I am angered that we were fooled to going to war for this reason.

However, a ruthless dictator, who used to put living people in giant paper-shredders, can no longer go to the bathroom without permission. On the other hand, Iraqis can freely surf the internet.

I don't understand the point of views of the anti-war folk completely. Yes, we were lied to, but our soldiers did their jobs and did it well. This is a volunteer military and our soldiers know that dying is a risk. I thank them for their courage that I dont have to be drafted to go fight. I also know how it feels to lose someone close to me. The pain and anguish never subsides completely. I hope that the families of the soldiers that died can move on and do well.

You ask if this war is "worthwhile." I say that if one more life was saved without saddam, then yes. An American life is not greater than an Iraqi life.

 

I'm willing to be that with the passage of time the pro-war family will lean the other way, much as the anti-war family might lean the other way.

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/20031218.htm

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...ro25jan25,1,7912864.story?coll=la-home-nation

 

The Iraq war has cost the lives of about 500 American soldiers. Some would have you believe that this makes Iraq a quagmire. But the truth is, if Western nations have come to the point where 500 deaths is an unbearable war-time loss, then we should also say we are no longer prepared to fight wars, because about the same number of soldiers die every year, in peacetime.

Americans support the war in Iraq and, by extension, Bush because they see it as part of a bigger picture. Like everybody, they now know that Saddam was not the threat they thought he was (at least, not to them) but they still think it was a good idea to deal with him, before he became one.

 

What is sad about it? Can we only pursue selfishly motivated goals? Is the liberation of a nation from a brutal tyrant less worthy a cause than preventing a sovereign nation from having WMDs (a cause of war many of the now anti-war folk were willing to accept)?

Class warfare really helps matters. I am from a working class family, and I was the one who gave that as my justification for war. Would rich soldiers somehow change my thought process? I find your whole post to be arrogant and offensive. What makes your reasons for opposing the war any better than our's for supporting it?

 

Except for maybe Iraqi women, who may actually be worse off in the future than they were under Saddam.

Do you really believe the Iraqis are free now?

They're certainly not free to tell the U.S. to leave. They're not free to say, "No thank you, we'll sell our own oil how we see fit."

And, if this is your rationale for accepting Bush's War (and that's how I think the war should be referred to, because that's what it is) then I have a blueprint of the future:

0. Iran
1. North Korea
2. Most of Africa
3. A few South American countries
4. parts of China
5. The Levant
7. Almost Every Inner City in the United States

These are some of the areas that have yet to experience the pleasure of Americans bombing the **** out of them, destroying their infrastructure, and exploiting their natural resources in exchange for some "freedom." Don't get me wrong - I'd love for them to have freedom, and real Democracy (come to think of it - I'd love for the U.S.A. to have Democracy as well). People are suffering in each of these places because of unfair government and a dangerous environment. They're often at risk of being harmed by their government, or local law enforcement, because they are not given proper access to the law to defend themselves. And not only can these people often not surf the internet - but the majority of them can't even afford a computer!

Send in the Marines!

Seriously - is it okay that the Bush Administration started a war using only questionable and cursory justifications, made a ton of money for their friends, probably had the war planned from the beginning of their rule, and allowed 512 poor and blue-collar kids to disappear from the earth forever in the process? Did you know that Bush himself was AWOL from the National Guard, and though he was in fine health and the proper age to go fight in Vietnam, he instead was drafted into the Texas Air National Guard with a bunch of other billionaire's sons? Gee, what luck!

Do you think those 512 people, if you could ask them right now, would still choose to get blasted to bloody bits or get their American brains blown all over the desert in order to achieve whatever it is that's been achieved in Iraq right now? (Other than the Halliburton pipelines, which apparently were built and ready to start pumping oil in record time).

Somehow we've been tricked into thinking that it's okay for wealthy people to send poor people to die fighting against other poor people so that wealthy people can protect their wealth and maybe increase it. Yes, sure, it's been happening through all of history - but wouldn't it be swell if one day people didn't do it anymore? Maybe before that can happen people will have to stop with all the solemn and sincere "acceptance" bull****.

Though it's nice to see that some here are so bravely and honorably willing to let Bush sacrifice the life of someone else for whatever it is that the war is supposed to be accomplishing.


Of course, they never explain it that way themselves - they say things like "We are doing our duty for Freedom." Or, "500 dead people isn't really a lot of dead people. Last year 500 people died too" or "It's okay because one day there might have possibly been maybe something that might have happened that would probably have been a good reason for us to start a war maybe."

Stop trying to justify it. When you accept the war, you're just accepting the right of the Federal Government to expend American lives how, when, and where they see fit without having to provide any justification for their actions.

 

..and before some Bush Bobblehead accuses me of "class war" I'd like to say:

I'd much prefer to see the American public pull their heads out of their asses and realize that even if you don't talk about class, it's still affecting you on every level. You don't have to recognize that you're poor to be poor.

Realizing that differences in the class one is born into affects one in every avenue of life and then talking about it is hardly "war."

This thing in Iraq, that's a war.

I think it is important to speak about how class differences determine one's fate and encourage people to examine the matter further, and be unafraid to talk about it even though some conservative will say you're trying to start a "war."

Talking about class differences ain't war. Those people killing each other in Iraq? Yeah, that's war.

Normal people need to realize how powerful a divider class is. And then, with this handy-dandy new realization - vote accordingly. Stop supporting people who will indifferently stomp your ass into the ground in exchange for a few more bucks in their bank account. Stop supporting politicians who send your children to die without giving you a reason.

Because it makes you look like a mewling bootlicking coward who is gaspingly desperate to identify with the same powerful people who don't know you, don't want to, and don't care if you suffer or prosper, live or die.

 

...and maybe I picked the wrong day to try and quit smoking.