42 people in Chicago shot over the weekend - Impact on US elections

Its irrelevant whether those arguments have validity. Thats not my point. The point was your desire to see 'gun violence' down is stupid. ITs the same mistake ATW and durvasa made above.

'What do gun rights advocates blame our off the charts gun crime rates on'

durvasa says. Crime rates are meaningful not gun crime rates. The purpose of a gun law would be to hopefully reduce crime rates. Same mistake over and over. The reason is that its easier to sell 'reduce guns per capita to reduce gun crime rate' than 'reduce guns per capita to reduce crime rate.'

I can't tell you how many ****ty and dishonest gun studies ive seen use gun murder rate or gun crime rate (I honestly dont even know what gun crime rate means).

 

That's a good point.

When I look at the stats for homicide rate vs gun ownership by country, the correlation is far less clear.

 

SMH

Why not kill someone . . .there is a 1 in 5 chance you can get away with it


Rocket River

 

[Premium Post]
Sam,
What are your thoughts on the Obama Administration's 7.5 year history of arming foreign countries? Less than a month ago, Obama proudly announced that he would be ending the embargo on gun sales to Vietnam. We all know about his arming of Mexican drug gangs, as documented in the Fast & Furious scandal. But the main recipient of guns and weapons from the US is the Middle East. Obama has sold significantly more weapons internationally than did the Bush Administration. Is this being done to support the military-industrial complex, or perhaps for another more sinister reason? Either way it undermines any credibility he has on gun control matters. His petulant speech today only further diminished his standing. He looked like a small child who was offended by Papa Trump's mean words.



GOOD DAY

 

Gun murder rate and homicide rate are tightly correlated:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state (sort by gun murders the last column) - and it's clear the two are incredibly correlated.

It makes sense to me that gun ownership doesn't correlate to gun murders nor overall homicides. The problem isn't gun ownership. The problem is people who have guns illegally and criminals with guns. I don't have a problem with lawful citizens having guns provided they are mentally stable and don't have a criminal record. It's not gun ownership, but overall the proliferation of guns.

 

props to OP for putting things into perspective. this chicago death cycle isnt as sexy as blaming a religion, persecuting a religion.. and trying to prop up their lame ass religion.

chicago best be swept under rug, this is about mooslims dont take your eye off the prize.

forget about it sammy. doesnt fit the narrative that all muslims can kill us all (fear) whereas this chicago stuff is supposedky 100% gang members.

I know google is my friend and am one or two clicks away from thousands of links of thousands of innocent dead people in chicago. why bother?

 

The table you posted shows no correlation between gun ownership and murder rate. I was just eyeballing though.

The current bill being supported by Hillary, the media, and other democrats wants to deny gun ownership (a right) to those on the terrorist watch list. Americans who have been convicted of nothing in any court of law. Lawful citizens. The watch list could refer to the no-fly-list which is about 47K citizens or it could refer to the actual terrorist watch list which is 1 mil citizens. This clashes with what you have written above. This is a violation of due process and specifically Mathews v. Eldridge (1976) which states everyone is entitled to notice and the opportunity to defend themselves in any proceedings against them.

The left sweeps Chicago under the rug. Not the right. Trump loves talking about Chicago (im not a trump supporter). Chicago has strict gun laws and has even banned handguns all to huge failure.

 

What portion of Chicago's gun laws are inordinately strict?

 

Gun shops are banned entirely from the city, they banned handguns outright until the law was overturned due to being obviously unconstitutional, Illinois is the only state in the US that doesn't allow citizens to carry weapons at all in public be it concealed or open carry, there is a ban on gun ranges in Chicago, there is a ban on "assault rifles" and "high capacity magazines"....I mean they'd likely ban all firearms if it wasn't blatantly unconstitutional. Of course, none of that makes things any safer, in fact things are getting worse there ever year.

 

-gun shops and gun ranges are outlawed in the city.

-1 of 4 states that doesn't allow any form of open carry.

-Can't carry gun in own garage or porch

-Ammo cant be sold in the city.

I could come up with more

 

Gun shops are allowed and have been for over 2 years. Not sure there are any, though. When I lived in the city, we made it hard for one to open in our neighborhood and they never did. So it may be hard for them to open, but it isn't banned.

Concealed carry has been allowed since 2012, so that isn't true. I assume open carry is outlawed though. That's not exactly strict, though.

And the gun ban was overturned 6 years ago.

And of course, none of this even comments on the ability to sell guns right outside of city limits.

So again, why do you call these laws strict? Because here is no open carry?

 

Uhh yeah sure. You do not get to pick fringe definitions from sites like urban dictionary to make your point valid.
Assault weapons are almost always semi-automatic.
Assault weapons are NOT fully automatic or short burst.
Maybe you are confused with the term assault rifle?? These generally are fully automatic or rapid burst. Those are not legally owned w/out a tax stamp (as you liberals want to say, they are "banned").
If we are to use unsubstantiated sources, lets at least agree to use Wiki for future reference.

You do realize not everyone buys guns under the table to kill?? Perhaps Sweet Lou should head up the pre-crime division, scouring the internet for alleged future criminals and sentencing them to 15 year prison sentences.

 

Good eye, I double checked and they did do concealed carry 3 years ago and technically have lifted the ban on gun shops. There is a very anti-gun culture in the city and it's good to hear that it is starting to change. Perhaps one day the people looking to do harm won't be the only people armed in that city.

 

I used wikipedia. Regardless, you are nit-picking word usage instead of substance.

Gun homicides correlate tightly to homicides - I never said it correlated to gun ownership.

Most of the guns recovered in Chicago come from other states. So a city-wide ban on guns does little to control the black market and import of guns illegally.

This is why gun ownership isn't as much of an issue as going after illegal guns. But to do that you need to ensure that people who do lawfully own a gun play by the rules. The penalties I am saying are the same one proposed by Bill O'Reilly. It's not about punishing lawful citizens, it's about allowing law enforcement to separate out lawful citizens from criminals. It's also about discouraging criminals from trying to acquire a gun illegally given the strict penalties that come with that.


I don't think asking gun owners to jump through a few minor hoops so that the country can be safer is a big thing to ask. It's not infringing upon their rights.

 

It isn't going to change in the USA and there isn't public support in the USA to consider any reasonable change. It is very ingrained in the culture and values of US citizens.

 

Another fun fact:

 

That's the thing. If they don't blame gun access, then the only logical alternative is they believe Americans are more prone to violence than other people in general, so they will pick up guns or need to be shot.

Imagine what kind of person thinks that way. Imagine what they think of fellow Americans. Imagine the particular set of prejudices and xenophobia those people tend to hold. Now imagine they have assault weapons. Just ridiculous.

 

Yes, and boy rape is integrated in some cultures too. Slavery was embedded in American culture and it was ultra wide spread. That is meaningless. Culture can be bad and it changes constantly, and the change can be accelerated.

Pulling a tooth is painful, but less painful and more healthy than the alternative.

 

This isn't accurate. There is public support. Our elected leaders just aren't representing the public, but interests.

take expanding gun background check as one example of public support in favor: http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...ingraham-say-claim-90-support-gun-background/