I did!!! It was awesome and totally balanced! I have a better understanding of Cheney now that I found the CIA was so wrong about Iraq weapons during Desert Storm. I also understand the reasons why crap went to wrong. Geberals said we need 500K troops, we went with 140K.
Links, quotes, you know? Anything based in reality that is factual that I've ever said that some countries can't or don't deserve democracy.
You admitted to certain posts, and then attacked him. He countered. Really no need for quotes of stuff you just admitted to.
That's after we take Iran and Russia. It'll be our glorious domino of freedom and self determined democracy.
Ofcourse the assumption is that the entire population actually votes and the candidates are representative of the population.
I don't know what CaseyH said, but I thank you from the bottom of my heart that you did not quote him. Seriously.
BS. We've both said that an ill-conceived invasion, a horribly-planned occupation, and a not-unexpected exploitation of the people and resources of a country is not the way to engender Democracy. The invasion was quite possibly the worst thing for Democracy in Iraq. The educated middle class has voted with their feet and it will take decades of work to even get them back in decent numbers. The infrastructure is shot, the societal divisions more dominant, and the puppet government set up by the US is ineffectual. As mc said, Democracy, by its very definition, cannot be forced. You can help create an environment favorable to Democracy through culture, trade, financial support... but you cannot force it, particularly when the idea of Democracy was an afterthought to justify the war to America, and not a major justification for the invasion and certainly not communicated to the Iraqi people. One can be for Democracy and against stupid, even if stupid is mentioned in the same sentence as Democracy. I'm fairly certain the Tibetans would want nothing like what Iraq has. You are correct that in the abstract, I do support Democracy and self-determination. I also live in the real world, where invading NK or starting a war with China would be insane and cause more grief than what you would be trying to alleviate.
you say you're a realist. could you spin a plausible scenario for democracy in iraq that did not require the forcible removal of saddam?
Sure. It's a long-term view though... not something that could go to the glory of the Bush administration. You keep applying economic and cultural pressure, provide covert support to those in the country trying to move forward, and repeat. Maybe you catch a break when Saddam dies. Maybe his sons inspire a revolution or a coup. Maybe the middle class exerts itself over time. Whatever it is, the US should be in a position to accelerate and support the change. A society with the level of readers and education as Iraq pre-war was tailor-made for the long-term approach. If you believe in Democracy, you have to believe the idea of Democracy will ultimately triumph.
Typical paper thin idealism/ warmongering from a neo-con. Bet he won't favor sending his own kids for such invasions.
