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2nd Trump Impeachment Thread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by SamFisher, Jan 6, 2021.

  1. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  2. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    https://reason.com/volokh/2021/02/1...tico-symposium-on-president-trumps-acquittal/


    [Josh Blackman] My Contribution to Politico Symposium on President Trump's Acquittal
    by Josh Blackman

    Politico invited me to contribute to a symposium on what President Trump's acquittal means. Here is my brief entry:

    The impeachment largely didn't matter to history. We were left with a show trial, which amounted to little more than political theater.

    This proceeding could have made a definitive case that Donald Trump incited an insurrection. And I think that evidence could have shown conviction was warranted—especially concerning the official actions Trump took before and after the speech he made on January 6, the same day as the Capitol riot.

    But this impeachment was rushed through, which ultimately made it ineffectual. The House approved a single article of impeachment one week after the incursion without developing any evidentiary record. The House did not hold any hearings, accept any sworn statements, subpoena former administration officials or request official documents. At the time, haste was understandable. The House insisted that Trump posed an existential threat, and he had to be removed immediately. But once January 20 passed, that existential threat disappeared.

    Perhaps Trump may seek some future office in two or four years. But until then, there was no need to jam through a one-week hearing without any fact finding or oversight. After January 6, the House could have spent some time collecting testimony, documents and other evidence to build a case. But the House chose not to. Instead, it sent its managers to try Trump armed with newspaper clippings, surveillance footage, presidential tweets and Parler posts.

    It's no wonder the managers couldn't prove Trump intended to incite an insurrection. They had no actual evidence that proved Trump's state of mind. When the managers tried to introduce a second-hand account of Trump's intent based on a conversation he had with Senator Mike Lee of Utah, Lee claimed it was inaccurate—and the managers ultimately had to withdraw the evidence. Still, the House managers could have called witnesses to build a record during the Senate trial, and even threatened to do so on Saturday. But they didn't.

    It seems the focus now will turn to President Biden's agenda. So be it. Priorities matter.
     
  3. SuraGotMadHops

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    Back to Back Impeachment champ!
     
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  4. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    I deleted this out of civility.
     
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  5. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member
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    Smh, I know you wont see this but I wish you peace and happiness.
     
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  6. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    Yeah, first president to ever get people in his own party to vote to convict on impeachment charges, and he did it twice! :eek:
     
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  7. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    Donald Trump is such a worthless, vile man for the countless arguments and thoughts wasted on him.
     
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  8. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    And he has 70million+ supporters.
     
  9. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Hitler has many followers. Some of the kookiest "pastors" have a lot of followers. Same phenomenon.
     
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  10. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    He also ran against two horrible candidates. With only two choices what are you going to do? Well... a segment of society will rationalize their support in whatever way they do and there you have it.

    I'm curious if things get worse before they get better and it ends up fracturing to more viable parties in the next few decades. Or if at some point there is actually a great president that changes things for the better against the status quo. Having profound support that we have not seen I guess since the 1940's.
     
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  11. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    Stuck in a hard place. Afraid to lose the MAGA crowd. Afraid to continue to lose suburban American. This is his clever technical ways of trying to maintain MAGA while hoping to win back the suburbs. At the end of the day, he doesn’t care that Trump is guilty - he just care about power.
     
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  12. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    A US election is a binary choice, just because he got 70 million votes does not mean he has 70 million 'supporters'. Many people would vote R whomever was on the ballot, many voted against Biden/Harris.

    Also, I think that vote count would be greatly reduced after the Insurrection of January 6th. I'm not sure Trump could win a primary now.
     
  13. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.

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    On the letter of the law, it's hard to say Trump is guilty. Drawing a straight line between his words/actions and the riots is an extremely high bar to clear in an actual trial.

    However, impeachment isn't really about the law as much as it is about what is "right" and/or politically expedient.

    This entire proceeding was not really about the Xs and Os of the law, it was about whether or not Republicans had the courage to move on from Trump and accept the short-term consequences of owning their mistake.

    They chose to kick the can down the road and put more political/social debt on the credit card at the Bank of Trump.

    That bill will come due in 2024 when they have to contend with him again as a Presidential candidate when he may be the most radioactive figure in national politics by orders of magnitude.

    However, Americans have the memory of a goldfish. So all could be forgiven by then. But the idea that Trump is going to spend 3 years rehabbing his image instead of just becoming even more vile and crazy does not seem likely.
     
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  14. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    I don’t think he’s going to sit on the sideline in 2022. So you are likely going to see a preview starting in 1.5 year. And wouldn’t surprise me if he has a maga social media channel by then.
     
  15. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.

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    I think you're absolutely correct. However, him just getting involved in other people's races (especially primaries) is very minor in comparison to him running in 2024. The latter was avoidable. The former was not.

    McConnell likely won't run again in 2024. He will regret not rallying those 10 extra votes. His legacy will be two things: world class obstructionist and losing the party to Trump.
     
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  16. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    There is a reason why impeachment isn't under the judicial branch but under the Legislative. The letter of the law while important isn't the primary consideration. A President could be impeached for something that isn't illegal and also not be impeached even though they did something illegal.

    Besides that the House Managers did show how Trump did violate the law regarding incitement and violating his oath of office.
     
  17. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    The consistent oblivious stupidity of Eric Trump is a comfort food for the soul in these troubled times.

    I know some will say "no he's just owning the libs!" and to that I say, **** no he ain't. He's that dumb, based in science.
     
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  18. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    What's even more hilarious about that tweet. In the history of all presidential impeachment trials, only 7 senators of the same political party as the president voted to convict in the entire history of this country. All 7 were votes to convict Trump.

    Wining a impeachment trial isn't an accomplishment as it is literally impossible to lose due to partisanship.
     
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  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy QUEEN ANON

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    The entitled, lesser-educated, suburban crowd that is just literate enough to read only headlines, needs the Bee. Glad they have something to give their lives meaning. Lulzt. And then there's the Elons that exploit them.
     
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  20. Ziggy

    Ziggy QUEEN ANON

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    To be clear, I HAVE posted some Bee stuff though! Lulz!
     

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