Hang on. You think Houston would not have won a championship if they had not cheated and signed wifebeaters? Thats some hot take bruh.
I wouldn't be surprised if there were some people in the media that were critical of the Yankees when they acquired Chapman (and the Cubs as well, but they at least didn't get a discount). Brandon Taubman didn't help things. There were some other cultural headwinds that went against the Astros during the Osuna trade. Jeff Luhnow was famously impersonal, and was dislike by large swaths of baseball for being number-focused and cutting the Astros scouting departments. He was the outsider McKinsey consultant who came in and was changing baseball norms vs Cashman and Epstein who were baseball lifers. You also have the #metoo movement becoming more of a cultural phenomena starting in 2017, where there was more scrutiny on power dynamics in interpersonal relationships. The Chapman trades came in 2015-2016 (the Dodgers backed out of their pursuit of Chapman because of these issues even then), while Osuna was traded in 2018, after this movement became more mainstream. I think people like Bill Clinton, Kobe Bryant, and Karl Malone would be looked at differently if their controversies took place in our current era, but most people don't tend to look at these things retrospectively. There's also the fact that Chapman was never charged with anything, while Osuna was. Personally, I find the Osuna trade to be more slimy than the trashcan scandal, but that's largely based on my belief that most teams in baseball were trying to come up with schemes to steal signs. I don't think the trash can stuff would have been as big of a deal if the Astros hadn't won the world series that year, especially with them beating two of the largest fan bases in the playoffs. While I like Luhnow's data-driven decision making process, I'm not a fan of the win-at-any cost mentality that he seemed to have. I think it's possible that Dana Brown's scouting focus will ultimately be better for the Astros sustaining their success without the luxury of high draft picks.
I think this is really really spot on. I would only say I might disagree ab it with "not a fan of the win at all cost mentality" b/c I am a fan of that and your GM should absolutely do that- it's up to your owner to figure out if it's worth the price, imo. But other than that 1000% agree with everything. Great post and I think you covered the culture around the trade and me too and the like in an appropriate setting.
Everyone was cheating in 2017 and 2018. The Astros got busted for continuing to use the system after the letter was sent out to tone it down. Luhnow was scapegoated because he almost brought the whole league down with us. You can't tell me the Dodgers weren't cheating also during the world series.
Ultimately, pro sports are an entertainment industry, not a winning industry. The Olympics test the limits of human capabilities, pro sports make up weird rules to keep things entertaining. For me, I do like rooting for the good guys. I started really following the Astros in 2013, when they were god-awful. I got to see them create one of the most dominant runs of any team largely by making better decisions than the competition. They were my hometown team that went from loveable losers to activating the death star that was their minor league player development system. I don't think they needed to take advantage morally questionable decisions just to win, especially in 2018, and doing so made them less entertaining to me. I'm not here criticize how anyone else is a fan, if winning is the only thing is your attitude, that's fine. For me there's something special about being really really talented and competitive while also having a really strong moral compass. I'm no Espada, but I like the "for those who have been given much, much will be expected" attitude. Jeff Luhnow seemed to lack the empathy and people skills to be a transcendent executive. I think there's a reason why AJ Hinch is leading another ascendant young team, while Luhnow is (i think) working in soccer. The difference between their responses to the Taubman situation spoke volumes to me. Luhnow complained he had to fire someone he liked, while Hinch said that no one should come into his locker room and be made to feel uncomfortable. It may have been all baloney, but I felt that was the right response.
I think Luhnow was committed to doing whatever gave his team their best chance to win a championship. Same as with the Yankees/Cubs when they brought in Chapman. As far as the cheating goes, same thing, they were just trying to keep up with the Yankees/Dodgers/Red Sox etc... and give them their best chance to win a championship. Either you keep up with the best or you get left behind.
With so few teams out of contention and the teams that are positioned as sellers having so few good players, I think we might see more teams looking to swap big leaguer players in buy-buy trades between AL and NL teams. Looking at that, here’s one: Astros get: 2B Nolan Gorman RP Phil Maton Cardinals get: RP Steven Okert RP Bryan Abreu CF Chas McCormick This gives Houston a lefty bat who can play 2B and a rental RP. They don’t give up any of their top prospects. St. Louis gets 2 good RP both who have an extra year of control and can replace their top 2 RP (Helsley and Maton) who are pending free agents, plus a CF who has a chance to be better than Victor Scott Playoff roster: SS Pena 3B Paredes DH Alvarez LF Altuve RF Smith C Diaz 2B Gorman 1B Walker CF Meyers Bench: Dubon, Caratini, Salazar, Melton SP: Framber, Brown, McCullers, Walter RP: Hader, Maton, King, Sousa, Dubin, Javier, Arrighetti, Garcia, Gusto
Oh I agree with you- and I hated the Osuna deal and I didn't root for him or cheer for him when he was in the game. It made things actively worse as a fan. I just don't think that's the GM's position to make those kind of judgment- I think that's the job of the guy who signs the checks, personally. So, that's on Crane. Luhnow allegedly was like- hey lets take the Pedo at Oregon State that was so good in the draft- nobody else is taking him- it's a free first round pick. Crane was the guy who put the nix on that. That's imo how it should be in an organization. Now- if Crane wants to say "hey-no **** heads or dirtbags" then it's JL's job to make sure he doesn't bring him deals for **** heads or dirt bags, but Crane was obviously the one with final say on that.
I worked really hard to get rid of all traces of the arsonist, Phil Maton, from my memory, and now you want to bring him back? No thanks. I would do that deal but reserve the right to b**** every time they bring that meathead into the game. I'd be a lot more likely to do that deal if I got word that 3 of our pitchers were going to be able to go this year that are currently on the IL but at least throwing bullpens and live bp.
Sword was on with Ross and said something that caught my attention. " How those guys(reptil, Garcia, France) come back will affect the way we approach the deadline, trade deadline" Was surprised he said that when he didn't have to. The question was how those guys were looking. No follow up.
A lot of this is true. But if you aren't a win at all cost org then they need to stop keeping score and I realize MLB is a business, but Crane winning has helped him make a lot of money and he's made that money because of Luhnow s win at all cost mentality. I don't think he really cares about the cheating scandal because it helped the bottom line and continues to do so today.
This Yordan situation is absolutely f*cked. Ozuna has been slumping a bit lately but almost have to try to make a move for him and another bat if this team is serious about winning this season.
I'm also only trading Abreu if I can get a Freddy Peralta type starter with at least 1.5 years of control. Otherwise, he's hands off.
The difference in your last paragraph comes down to Manfred and Luhnow was costing MLB money. like you said baseball is a business. Can't have a mut team like the Stros building a Yankees, Dodgers type dynasty, it's bad for business. Manfred said as much when he said he wished he would have made the punishment worse. As for the first paragraph, why even bother keeping score if you aren't doing everything possible to win?
Yeah if Yordan isn't avail the rest of the season. Would just put Altuve in the DH role the majority of the time. Find someone who can play either LF and/or 2B lefty bat.
