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2024 Season Appreciation Thread

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by RKREBORN, Jun 15, 2024.

  1. RKREBORN

    RKREBORN Member

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    I'd like to thank Jim Crane, Jeff Bagwell, Shoulder/Arm Discomfort, Tommy John, Dana Brown, Jose Abreu, Ryan Pressly, HEB, Taquerias Arandas, and our incredibly talented manager Joe Espada for a fantastic season. I'll still be around watching games, but I've lost hope on this season. Looking forward to a stress free October!

    [​IMG]
     
  2. solid

    solid Member

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    The only thing I have appreciated so far is dumping Abreu. But what a huge bad decision. Will cost the Astros millions for nothing. WHOEVER pushed Abreu's hiring should be fired and never listened to again. Actually they should be required to leave the Houston area and never come back to visit.

    I don't understand why there are not "performance" conditions in all sports contracts. If you stink then you don't get the full amount. Abreu should not walk away with millions when he didn't perform.
     
    #2 solid, Jun 15, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2024
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  3. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    Because there is not any similar conditions on pre free agent contracts. Players who get multi year, 8+ figure contracts have made owners tens of millions and some times hundreds of millions in order to have the opportunity to underperform on a rich deal.

    For example, from 2020-2023 Kyle Tucker's performance has been worth $147.2M based on bWAR.

    During those 4 years he made $7M ($6.991M to be exact).

    In 2024 he has SO far been worth $28.8M and is getting paid $12M.

    So you are saying that players should endure that, with no benefit or bonus if they overperform their salary, but they should be penalized if they have poor seasons and earn less than their salary in Free agent contracts?
     
  4. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    Abreu is actually even a better example.

    As an international free agent, he signed a 6yr / $68M deal for 2014-2019. After 3 seasons, he was eligible to choose arbitration rather than the guaranteed salary in the contract.

    After 3 seasons he had made $24M + a $10M signing bonus but his performance was worth $99.2M

    He elected arbitration in 2017 and was awarded a raise to $10.825M. His performance was worth $39.2M

    He elected arbitration again in 2018 and was awarded $13M, instead of the $11.5M that was in the contract. His performance was worth $16M.

    He elected arbitration again in 2019 and was awarded $16M instead of the $12M in the contract. His performance that season was worth $20M.

    In all he made $73.825M his first 6 seasons, but his performance was worth $174.4M

    Based on what you are saying, the White Sox should have had a clause to protect themselves incase he underperformed. What does he get if he overperforms?
     
  5. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    Shouldn't this be a depreciation thread?

    Or maybe a discomfort thread?

    A tired thread?

    We have so many good titles to choose from :D:(
     
  6. solid

    solid Member

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    I don't understand sports contracts like you do. I really have never been interested, BUT
    The only thing I am suggesting is that there should be "terms" for the contract. For example, here are expectations. If you outperform them you get bonuses and if you underperform you get deductions. Millions for nothing doesn't make sense to me.
     
  7. lnchan

    lnchan Sugar Land Leonard
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    Don't forget Killeen's BBQ as the redeeming quality of the 400s section.
     
  8. Buck Turgidson

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    Dude, you're now in charge of appropriate and allowable thread titles, announce your presence with authority

    I suggest CAPS LOCK
     
  9. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    As long as it goes both ways I think it's a fine idea.

    The problem now is that owners and teams pay guys $750K their first 3 years when the avg MLB salary is $4.5M. Then the salary creeps up for 3 additional years via arbitration.

    Frequently they are good and the owners are getting $4.5M+ results at 1/6 the cost.

    Those players make owners millions and millions, but then when they are FA and have the freedom to choose how much they want to get paid the owners want to reduce as much of the risk as possible and fans buy it !!

    What about owners understanding if they paid a guy $30M over 6 years but he performed at a $130M level then paying him $130M for 6 more but only getting a $30M performance is still break even and not a loss.

    This is an extreme example, but my point is that players have earned the security of putting the risk on the owners.

    If Abreu's 3 yr/ $58.5M deal was with the White Sox they would still have made a hefty profit on him since 2014. Buy all anyone considers is the current contract.

    But owners and fans lose their minds because the first 6 years of control don't count. It's just to line the owners pockets.

    No matter how much excess value a player earned during the first 6 years, everyone still only cares about the FA deal not being under water without any of that excess profit being considered.
     
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  10. Buck Turgidson

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    The Winter Meetings are in early December, so 2024 still has some promise.
     
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  11. solid

    solid Member

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    It is complicated. I guess in the grand scheme of things, the Astros can survive the Abreu mistake.
     
  12. BlindHog

    BlindHog Member

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    Owners spend millions running a minor league system to develop them. The return is negative with the vast majority of minor league players washing out before ever reaching major league ball. Of the few that do reach MLB a large proportion do not last 3 years. making the idea of paying them more for those years of negative return ludicrous. If you are going to ignore the investment made putting players in position to earn the money the successful ones get you are missing the story.
     
  13. RKREBORN

    RKREBORN Member

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    Espada just cost this franchise a morale boost with another possible Blanco no hitter
     
  14. lnchan

    lnchan Sugar Land Leonard
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    The morale boost from that first no hitter... didn't last :/
     
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  15. Jake Tower

    Jake Tower Member

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    There should be an Ed Reed Clause that stipulates that if you show you are washed up after signing, you get cut for a small payout.
     
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  16. Radricky

    Radricky Member

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    I’m sure they will be fine.
    How did they respond after the first no hitter?
     
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  17. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    I understand and agree development costs must be considered. Something must he taken off the top for that.

    My point is that it's crazy that people say a player is "stealing from a team" if they don't live up to a contract, after they have tens and sometimes hundreds of million $$ in excess value before signing the contract, and never getting any credit for it.

    Let's use Lance.

    Including his $2.5M signing bonus, Lance made $18.64M during his controllable seasons leading up to his extension.

    He also had 9.7 bWAR, which means those seasons were worth $77.6M., or about $59M excess value

    So far almost 2 1/2 yrs into his extension, he has 1.4 bWAR. = $11 4M value but about $42.5 in salary. Or negative $31.1M in value.

    So, as an Astro, McCullers has been worth almost $28M more than he has been paid, despite being on the IL for more than 3 full seasons.

    As I said, some of that $28M needs taken away due to development costs, but fans don't even consider any positive excess at all.

    If he plays poorly, he is stealing but any extra value he earned prior to it is just put in the owners bank account and never considered.
     
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  18. rockets1995

    rockets1995 Member

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    You want Ronel Blanco to get injured, he threw 94 pitches. The Starting Rotation is suffering as it is. Last thing you want is Ronel Blanco getting injured in this start or get injured in his next start.

    It was the right move by Joe Espada, pulling Ronel Blanco.

    Get the job done Ryan Pressly, Josh Hader, both of them gave up hits, Hader gives up 1 run.
     
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  19. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    Absolutely.

    If ANY of the SP get hurt in the next 6 weeks, the outlook will get much worse.

    This includes Verlander.

    Gotta coddle the starters and prevent injury at all cost at least until Garcia and/or McCullers get back
     
    rockets1995 likes this.
  20. kaw1988

    kaw1988 Member

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    This adds more fuel to the fire. Sigh.

     

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