The defensive metrics wholly disagree with you. Also, Meyers is a clearly superior offensive player to Marisnick: Jake Meyers career wRC+: 90 Jake Marisnick career wRC+: 80 Anyone can argue that Meyers is a terrible hitter and mediocre defender, but that’s not based on objective data. By the data, he is inarguably an elite defender and a slightly below average hitter.
What defensive metrics have his arm being even serviceable.. sorry, for that I’ve been using the eye test and watching guys tag up on a routine fly ball to your CF is nauseating.. FWIW, I also think McCormick has a weak arm. Same with Dubon. They have arms for LF, but are over qualified for our small LF area, not a chance any of them could play RF. Leon and Gilbert have good arms at least if we don’t plan on finding someone outside the club. It just feels like some are idolizing his defense much like what has been done with Maldonado.. I know defense is more important than hitting in probably both positions, but goodness they are so bad at hitting. not gonna have a “who’s the tallest dwarf?” Debate as far as Meyers and Marisnick’s offense goes, I apologize for even bringing it up.
I almost lost it at Marisnick is a better offensive player- and I really liked OG Jake. But yeah, no, not even close.
What is your definition of "so bad at hitting?" Jake Meyers is at 91 OPS+ this year, 88 for his career, and he played last year clearly injured. At worst he's 10% below league average going forward. Maldy is 50% below league average. 10% below league average for a catcher, SS or CF, when paired with even above average defense is a really good player. You are putting something on Meyers that isn't true. Last year he had a 66 OPS plus when he was clearly hurt. 2021 he had a 107 ops+ when he got consistent playing time. his true talent is probably somewhere between 2021 and 2023 if he got regular and consistent play while not hurt.
Comparing Meyers to Maldonado is silly. With a wRC+ of 90 over his career, Meyers has been a below average hitter, in the range of what Dubon and Pena and Meyers have done this season. Do you think Dubon and Pena have been “terrible” this season? Sure, hes not great, but Meyers is nearly average with the bat; “terrible” is not a reasonable description for his offensive performance. Maldonado has a career wRC+ of 70, which is objectively terrible, FAR worse than Meyers and significantly worse than even someone like Marisnick. Maldonado’s wRC+ this season is 50, which is worse than terrible, it’s unplayable, regardless of how good someone may be on defense. Meyers is nowhere near that bad.
Of course, the good ole eye test, always accurate. This season https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.a...ers=0&startdate=2023-01-01&enddate=2023-12-31 His career https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.a...0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=&enddate= And his statscast page https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/jake-meyers-676694?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb His arm is fine, not good, not bad.
Ok guys, Meyers is awesome, my bad. The stats all back it up. Elite glove who can’t hold a runner at 2nd on a fly out, but I guess no one can do that since his metrics are equal to the others. my eye tests and I will just sit back and quietly hope other teams value him like y’all do and we trade him instead of McCormick.
My comment was referring to the return that Myles Straw brought back. Giolito and Graveman would bring back a bigger return in my opinion.
I think both of you are right. Watching Meyers throw in a game is not impressive. He rarely throws anyone out. However when watching all the CF in baseball every play and not just highlights, most of them don't throw any better. Meyers is perfectly good because most other CF arms aren't anymore impressive. He is perfectly average which is not good enough to keep a fast MLB runner from taking an extra base.
It is almost like CFs are selected for their ability to run down the ball as if that happens a lot more than the number of times a player can be thrown out. Meyers is 5th in OF assists among CFs behind Harris, Varsho (how the hell does he has 4 assists in limted time?), Robert, and Brenton "Tungsten" Doyle.
Meyers is a great defender and serviceable offensive player when he's not completely lost like he was the beginning of the season. My gripe is that we have a good defender and good offensive player and he doesn't play enough. Chas should play almost every day and Julks and Meyers should split time depending on who's hot and who's pitching.
System needs: 1. Quality lefthanded bat 2. SP capable of starting a playoff game 3. Late inning RP with multiple years of control 4. Lefthanded bench bat 5. Elite pitching prospects Tradeable assets: 1. League average CF with multiple years of control (Meyers, McCormick) 2. League average BoR SP with multiple years of control (France, Bielak, Blanco, Urquidy) 3. 2nd and 3rd tier position player prospects (guys like Loperfido, Corona, Dezenzo, Lee, etc.) 4. Injured MoR SP with multiple years of control (Garcia, McCullers) 5. ~$20M in payroll flexibility
I would be on board with that. Chas has raised his ceiling and is living there. It makes even more sense with Urquidy and Garcia out, and Verlander gone who are all fly ball pitchers. Cherry pick Meyers and Julks for starts by matchup but Chas starts 95%. This can be adjusted if Meyers starts hitting like he was in May and into early June or the Astros rotation suddenly has 5 fly ball pitchers, etc. But until/unless that happens Chas has earned a spot in the starting OF daily.
I see a lot of people asking if Arrighetti has the ceiling of a #2-5 starter…. I think there is too much wiggle room between 2-4 starter. He can likely get you 150-180 innings a year with an era under 4.00. What is that worth when there is 5 years of team control? I would argue that has a lot of value - you get competitive innings at pennies on the dollar. It’s a similar situation for JP France. These guys are not stars but have a lot of value, because the growing rate of a #4 starter is like 15 million a year. The Astros are starting to accumulate these guys now. They have Urquidy - who is pretty good out of the pen, but a #4-5 type starter. My guess is he is possibly who they move for a rental if they can. Luis Garcia is going to be back next year, and he has more upside than other guys. Hunter Brown is under control for years - same with Javier. For all the talk of a lack of pitchers in the Astros system - there is a good chance Gordon will be knocking on the door next year too. It is why I could see one of these arms dealt for a better rental pitcher and/or a high level reliever under contract beyond this year or a bat.
I have noticed that a lot of the stuff I am hearing about the Astros involves taking back low financial cost players. They have lots of interest in relievers under team control beyond this year - that have never hit free agency. When I say a lot of interest, I mean that - guys with at least 2 years but preferably more. The starting pitchers are rentals or have one more year like Bieber. The bats are rentals or don’t make a lot of money. I don’t think they have been told to not spend money, I get that they want to not spend a lot on areas they don’t need to so they can splurge on spots where they have no choice - an ace or Star hitter. Don’t be shocked if the Astros pay a lot for a player that a lot of fans are not familiar with - because the player is reliable and under multi-year control… like an Aaron Bummer and another piece that fits the teams needs in the short term. Maybe a Carlos Hernandez from the Royals…Andres Munoz from Seattle…
I think I would call the Rockies and offer Montero, Meyers and a Prospect not in the top 20 for Kris Bryant and they eat like 7m in 24 6m in 25 6m in 26
Good stuff. I also assume they may be saving money for extensions. I will be really surprised if they don’t extend Altuve this offseason.
