2022 Season WS or bust?

Why do you think that there’s a correlation between who actually cheated and who got punished? That’s laughable at best. We know the dodgers were cheating, more then the astros. Are you trying to pretend that only the astros were doing that stuff? Even if you’re a dodgers fan, that’s embarrassing

 

Not at all...I am saying how Astros fans would have reacted if the situations were reversed. How can you not understand that? Astros fans would be thoroughly pissed off if they lost to the Dodgers and the Dodgers were the ones ratted out and made an example of.

 

I don’t understand. The situation was the same for both teams, they were both doing the same stuff. Did the dodgers invest more into their sign stealing? Yes. Did they do it more? Sure. Who was ratted on makes no difference to me, I don’t care how the information came to light. We know the reality of what happened. The commissioner being a scumbag piece of garbage has no bearing on the reality of the situation

 

The aftermath....

You do remember the Astros were ratted out by Fiers - correct? And the subsequent investigation, that was announced prior to the 2020 season, of the Astros determined the level of their cheating - correct. And rightly or wrongly, no other team was investigated and punished as thoroughly as the Astros - correct? And the Astros have become the whipping boy and pariah of MLB - correct? And the vast majority of the fans across MLB continue to complain about that and say their WS championship is tainted - correct?

Now many Astro fans absolve the Astros because everyone was doing it, but the Astros just happened to be the ones caught.

Now, let's go back in time. Assume the Dodgers did the exact same thing the Astros did and in doing so won the 2017 WS. They were subsequently ratted out, investigated and punished in the exact same way the Astros were.

As an Astros fan would you exonerate the Dodgers because every team was doing it and you would simply offer the Dodgers kudos for winning the 2017 WS OR, would you be complaining about them and saying how they didn't really win the WS and the Astros were cheated out of it?

 

I didn’t care about the sign stealing stuff at the time, why would i care about it now? I just don’t care what a scumbag corrupt piece of garage does, it has no bearing on reality. I only care about reality, not what one scumbag does or what some idiot fans of other teams think. Was I annoyed about the yankees stealing signs in the wild care game? Of course, but once i learned everyone did it i stopped caring

 

Do you really believe that the players do not recognize that Yuli is struggling badly and needs help. I sat down and calculated War per game for the players last night and it really jumped out at me that Yuli's contribution to this team is negative. Every time he is played instead of someone else the teams chances to win are reduced. Read that sentence again. Every time Yuli is played instead of someone else the teams chances to win are reduced. If you do nothing to try and help him the best thing for the team is to keep him out of the game. I do not believe anybody on this team would deny him an opportunity to regain some of his previous stature. Nor do I think he would turn down the chance. The players all want to win, as does Yuli. I do not know how Dusty or any scandle got into this conversation. this is about giving the team (all of them) the best opportunity to reach their goal.

 

That is exactly what happened the very next season.

 

I think your premise is extremely flawed:
1) He most certainly is getting every resource available offered to him already. They're not idiots.
2) Sending him away is not an opportunity to regain his stature. Letting him play and work through his problems is the opportunity to regain his stature.

Sending him to instructs now would be crazy insulting to do to a veteran. It'd be the equivalent of telling him to go sit in the corner and put on a dunce cap. That would not sit well with anyone.

The 2022 Astros play like a cohesive team (much of that I credit to Dusty). They win as a team, they lose as a team. I'm sure Astros players understand Yuli is struggling but I would bet anything that none of them blame Yuli individually. Nor do they blame Urquidy for yesterday. Good teams pick up their weakest players.

There's an argument to be made for benching Yuli, it just doesn't appear the Astros agree with it.

 

Saying The Astros cheated is a hard reach, they weren't caught paying the umpire to call strikes.. They weren't caught taking body enhancing drugs..... They weren't caught with corked bats. They were just using technology to do something that has always been doing in baseball.... Its actually part of it...

If it happened the other way around I'd have the same exact view of it, because everyone was doing it and there is absolutely no way to safely assume The Astros would have won any of those games had The Dodgers been picking signs.... Just because you know what's coming, or think you know whats coming still does not mean you will hit it. Players guess all the time, get the guess right and still miss... Pitchers tip their pitches all the time, players pick up on it and still strikeout.... Astros won the World Series, no ands ifs or buts.....

 

Letting him play and work through his problems is not working. It has been tried all season. It is time to try something else.
These are not children. Nobody is blaming anybody. Everybody struggles. Everybody ages and must learn to adapt. These guys are acutely aware of it because they know it will happen to them one day too. It is the managers function to give the entire team it's best chance to win. If a player is making it more difficult for the team to win for whatever reason it is the manager's responsibility to do something to ameliorate that situation. He might try any number of things but ignoring the problem is not among them. Yuli is most likely done. He deserves a little extra effort and should get it. In the end Dusty will have to do his job. Sitting Gurriel when the time comes will be difficult for everyone involved but the team will move ahead as is always the case.[/QUOTE]

 

World Series Champs or bust. Ask the players the same question. What would they say?

 

What do you mean you WOULD be pissed if things were reversed? ARE you pissed the dodgers were cheating all those years? Are you pissed boston was? or the yankees? or colorado? or arizona? or whoever else?

 

are you mad at boston for 2018?

 

Most of us, when honest, feel that way.

But take the hypothetical one step further.

Say,
We lost to the Dodgers or Yankees, found out they cheated, but also determined your own team was cheating.

Now THAT is closer to the truth.