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2022 Playoff and 2023 Roster Discussions

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Marshall Bryant, Aug 14, 2022.

  1. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

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    I think they don't offer Framber an extension because of it. He's the groundball king so wait and see how he does without the shift.
     
  2. rpr52121

    rpr52121 Sober Fan
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    Wouldn't this more of a question of how they build the infield?

    I mean we have had very good to dominant ground ball pitchers prior the shift era.
     
  3. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    Let's break down Click's contributions

    • Inherited a world series team that was up 3-2 team.
    • Signed Baez - Bust
    • Signed Odorizzi - Bust
    • Signed Taylor Jones - neutral
    • Signed Siri - decent
    • Signed Stanek - good first year and great now
    • Signed Neris - Great
    • Signed Niko Goodrum - bust
    • Traded for Will Smith - bust
    • Traded for Vazquez - Good and better if he resigns
    • Traded for Mancini - Good but obviously not great
    • Traded for Dubon - Depends on who you ask. He filled in a gap
    • Traded for Phil Maton - Decent
    • Traded for Yainer Diaz - Decent
    • Traded for Yimi Garcia - Neutral
    • Traded for Graveman and Montero - Great

    Let's also add some things that Nook and the media have implied.

    • Crane wanted an impact bat before the beginning of the season with the money that we had and it didn't happen.
    • Crane wanted an impact bat at the trade deadline and it didn't happen unless we were willing to give up a quality starter with world series experience for a rental.

    Let's add some other things to think about.

    • The Verlander resigning was completely Crane. We don't even know if Click was for a or against it.
    • All the starting pitchers and impact offensive players were Luhnow players
    • Click and Dusty don't get along all that great and everyone likes Dusty especially his players.
    • Click wasn't a GM for Tampa Bay and we don't know what he could really take credit for
    • Click has had some brain drain from the Luhnow era including the Scout that pretty much signed all our Latin American pitchers and we could have kept some.

    So before I make my state my conclusion from this, I though Click was a great hire when we made it and I still think he's an above average. It looks like is very good at acquiring contributing relief pitchers. He wasted money on his big money acquisitions in Baez and Odorizzi. He's been terrible so far at getting impactful position players. So if Crane thinks he can find a better GM than Crane, I will give him the benefit of the doubt. He's been pretty good at surrounding himself with good baseball evaluators.
     
    Kim likes this.
  4. Jeremy Williams

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    Click's trade of Graveman and Montero for J Smith and Toro was an A+ and his best deal.
    Another part that I will give him credit for--not giving Correa the $ he wanted.
     
  5. Screaming Fist

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    It will be so fascinating to see if teams just accept using a standard alignment or if they play games like having defenders in motion when the pitch is made or other craziness in an attempt to circumvent the new rules.
     
  6. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    I don't think Crane would have paid Correa anyway, and watching Pena play, it's pretty obvious the kid was special. Correa even said it during his last preseason here when he was hanging out with Pena. The clutchness is something none of us would have predicted.
     
    raining threes likes this.
  7. jjsmooth

    jjsmooth Member

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    Contreras wouldn't have DH'ed in the playoffs for the same reason that Vazquez didn't DH in the playoffs (until G6 of the WS when we had a 3rd C)
     
    raining threes likes this.
  8. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

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    Maldy's 36 years old (will turn 37 next season) and playing catcher is a beating on knees, hips, and everything else. Plus, you take a few 95-100 mph balls to various body parts on the regular. As the pitching staff matures his game management becomes a little less critical. I'd resign CV and platoon the two next season with Maldy getting 30-40% of the games. Make sure he's not catching the last day of a series so he has lots of time to scout and prep for the next one and convey that info to pitchers, catchers, and others. Come playoff time, go with whoever is working best knowing neither will be too worn down. Having a legit 2-3 catchers is like having a 5-6 man starting rotation. Saves wear and tear, keeps people fresh for the playoffs.

    In some thread we were joking about bringing Correa back and having him play 2B or 1B, but with the ban on shifts, having an infield with Bregman, Pena, and Correa covering ground might not be a bad thing.

    Regardless, this series made it clear to me how important defense is in winning a championship. The Phillies kicked balls around at critical times, made routine outfield plays look like web gems, and throws to first base often looked shaky. Meanwhile, we were flawless and understatedly spectacular in the field save for a pitcher's double error and a toss to second, neither of which hurt us a great deal. Even on the last out, Tucker got a great jump, had a long run, and ended up making a difficult play look easy. If we're signing a 1B and/or a LF, I not only want bats but really good to great D.
     
    Kim and 13 in 33 like this.
  9. scott_summers

    scott_summers Member

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    This is exactly what I was saying earlier. I love Yuli and hope he can stay in as a utility guy. Jose Abreu and JD Martinez in iut
    This is what I was saying. And let me say I love Yuli. I wish he was still hitting good enough to be our starting 1st baseman. Abreu and JD would make our lineup stacked again. I have no doubt Abreu would mash in Minute Maid. I dont think JD is done quite. Despite his down year last season. I think we could get both at good deals.
     
    astros123 likes this.
  10. BlindHog

    BlindHog Member

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    If JV re-signs we have trip aces. They will pitch in order of seniority but Javier is just as good or better than the other two.
     
    astroa89 likes this.
  11. rpr52121

    rpr52121 Sober Fan
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    I know some teams will try it. I wouldn't even call it circumventing.

    For example in volleyball, you have rules on where you can be before the ball is served. Once it is served, any decent club team, and every college and nation team is scramble to change up the positioning to get the setters, hitters, and back line in the appropriate place.

    In baseball, there is probably more distance and less time to do that, but I could definitely see some teams trying it.

    I also think the larger bags will have the opposite effect than intended. It makes it easier for fielders get a touch on the bag, and allows 1st baseman to stretch just a few inches more than before. Also, I think there may be more baseballs ricocheting off of bases causing weird bounces.
     
    Kim likes this.
  12. Mr.Pringles

    Mr.Pringles Member

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    He’s done a great job in finding electric power arms for the pen. Stanek, Montero, Graveman & Neris. The rotation and starting lineup is pretty much all Luhnow. I’d only give Click credit for majorly improving the bullpen (which Luhnow could never really do), and finding suitable vets too round out the bench…which he’s about even on..Vasquez was the big piece…Mancini, Dubon we’re serviceable guys who maybe under performed.
     
    Kim likes this.
  13. Jeremy Williams

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    The bullpen was the biggest change for our 22 team—and a huge reason we won.
     
    mikol13 likes this.
  14. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    I think he was desperate. He was promising a big trade, and Chicago thought they had leverage. Fortunately Crane squashed it and we still won a world series. If we are going trade a pitcher with team control that has a few world series wins under his belt, it better be for more than a catcher with questionable defense.
     
    tehG l i d e and Kim like this.
  15. Marshall Bryant

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    Abreu's scatter chart show almost no tendency at all. Equal distribution from left to right. It is amazing.

    https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/jose-abreu-547989?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb
     
  16. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    I'm of the same viewpoint. Click's best attribute as GM has been not trading excessive amounts of long term value for short term value. If there wasn't a prospect involved, I'd guess this was a trade designed (even if an overpay) to get Dusty not to play Maldy so much (or maybe Gurriel if Contreras can still play 1B) which may explain why Dusty didn't like it.
     
    Kim likes this.
  17. panamamyers

    panamamyers Member

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    Neris is paid like a closer, so I would hope that he is really good Problem is you can't keep throwing money at these guys.
    Montero - great
    Stanek - great
    You can't go and buy a bunch of $8 million a year guys to fill out the bullpen though.

    I think the thing with Click is of course he is not completely inept. He filled in the bullpen. That's fine. Having a middle of the road GM is like having deferred maintenance on a car. You may not notice it for a while, but once it becomes noticeable, it's way too late to do anything about it.

    Most of this team is due to Luhnow still. Anyone could have been put in charge to sign Neris for closer type money. A few winners and a few losers in terms of signings outside of that.

    The momentum of the Luhnow era is still there and will carry us through really 2025 at least with the way baseball is set up. We still have 9 of the top 20 prospects in the organization that were signed when Luhnow was here. 2025 could easily see McCullers, Javier, García, Brown and Valdez as the starting rotation with Urquidy, Whitley, Abreu, Melendez, Tamarez and Dubin in the bullpen. Still all Luhnow guys.

    But by 2026, if the front office doesn't have the next 12 guys lined up, that's when we will know and it will be too late to do anything about it. You could have stuck just about any GM in there in 2019 that was not a complete idiot and have expected success for the next 6 years at that time.
     
    BHannes2BHonest, Kim and 13 in 33 like this.
  18. Major

    Major Member

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    If the hitter is good enough, you can DH them - it's what we did with Evan Gattis/Brian McCann. In the freak scenario of an injury to the starting catcher, you deal with 1 or 2 AB's by your pitcher or pinch hitters. The risk is pretty low. Vasquez didn't DH because he wasn't really any better a hitter than Mancini or Diaz, so the benefits weren't there. Obviously Mancini/Diaz sucked it up, but they were all about equal-quality hitters in theory.
     
    Kim likes this.
  19. jjsmooth

    jjsmooth Member

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    Pretty sure Gattis was a DH only. We had Conger in 15 and Centeno in 17 as backup C
     
  20. Major

    Major Member

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    Gattis got the majority of his regular season ABs in 2017 as a catcher. In the postseason, he DH'ed exclusively because McCann caught. If your backup C is your primary DH, then it frees up a roster spot to have a 3rd catcher. But If McCann had gotten hurt, Gattis would have been the primary C.

    The key is that the C/DH has to be good enough to justify as the DH. Gattis was; Vasquez wasn't.
     

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