Pro-choice? You think women are gleefully wanting abortions? You don't think it's a difficult decision for them? People aren't pro-abortion. People are pro-choice. The choice for a woman to value her own life over a sentient entity. For woman who chose and want the baby, that non-sentient entity has value to them because they know what that non-sentient entity will eventually become. But fora woman who doesn't want the pregnancy it's just a non-sentient entity that is either severely harming their physical health or mental health or both.
Joe Biden represents what a empathetic person who is against abortion themselves looks like. You can personally be against abortion but your views shouldn't be imposed on others.
Pro-choice of what? Abortion. Perhaps the better term is "pro-abortion rights" You don't think those who crafted "pro-choice" didn't intentionally exclude the word abortion? I don't think people are "pro-abortion" as in they want to see people getting abortions.
They chose "pro-choice" as the term because it more accurately represents what they believe. It's really that simple. People aren't jumping for joy to have a abortion. It's always a difficult decision that causes stress.
Sure, the point is that I doubt such a view or feelings drives people into the streets and into the ballot boxes en masse. Many people, if asked, think abortion access/rights should exist but they aren't that into abortion rights. It's a morally problematic and icky subject they'd rather avoid. Not go all out for.
Sure with your framing I guess? But with the framing of "this limits liberty and freedom for women and forces them to gestate a pregnancy for 9 months against their will" should be a beacon for all free thinking libertarians at least but I understand in the US, "libertarian" is just another term for "conservative". For some reason libertarianism has a strong theocratic streak that is compromised mostly of the evangelical right.
So when pro-choice people use the term all they time when they discuss the issue, you are just going to ignore that? It simply can't be "I'm pro-liberty. Abortion itself is something one should never be excited about".
The word "abortion" is unavoidable when they are pressed. They simply choose the disingenuous "pro-choice" language to avoid the word "abortion" or "abortion rights" as much as they can. Choice? Good. Abortion? Icky, morally problematic. Best to avoid that word as much as we can.
You know what I’m talking about with the framing. I don’t really want to give personal info but I will tell you this hits close to home as it does with most Americans that the judgmental hypocrites on the right love to look simplistically vilify. The fact is during my wife’s pregnancy in the 2nd trimester she had a major emergency and I was sitting in the ICU while she was being worked on with neurologists on one side of the room and the emergency OB crew on the other ready to do what might have needed to be done to save a life in that moment. At no point in that moment did I ever think that Donald Trump or Justice Alito or Joe Biden should be making a decision about what was going to happen to my wife or my daughter. So respectfully… you can go to hell if you are going to join in on the judgemental bullsh$t framing on abortion. Abortion is ugly … yes. It’s horrible. Nobody is saying it isn’t. The fact that you are insinuating those who care about having the choice are “pro abortion” in the way you are framing it is disgusting. I pray to God even my worst enemies never have to be in a situation like I was in and thank God to this day i have the family I have. But don’t sit here and act like you know the intention of anyone who disagrees that Samuel Alito or Gregg Abbott should be in the ICU with me and my wife telling me and the doctors what has to be done which is morally right. You don’t know me and I don’t know you but now you know enough about me to know that you should drop the judgemental bs right now.
I don’t get what you are on about. Abortion is obviously a moral dilemma that a woman (and her partner) has to negotiate. It is never, ever a joyous decision. It is a choice that many decide is the best answer to an impossibly difficult situation. I’m fine with limits, and I don’t like abortion one bit, but the choice to abort must exist. Anyway, it’s perfectly understandable and appropriate that so many would rather label it pro choice.
This. It should be as infrequent as humanly possible and certainly with some limits...but it should be safe and it should be available medical coverage for all women.
I didn't meant to imply anyone was "pro-abortion" in the sense that anyone was happy to have an abortion. The more correct term I suppose would be "pro-abortion rights and/or access." I think anyone who read that into what I've written is doing so with bad motives. It's horrible. I think that in situations where the life of the mother is in question, abortion is permissible, I think that's a mainstream belief.
this is a classic 'don't think of an elephant' discussion. There isn't a "correct" term, and the default position isn't necessarily the liberal/progressive-favored term.
People are being sued in texas for seeking abortions after they’ve learned they have cancer and it isn’t safe for them to proceed with the pregnancy. These people are not pro abortion, they’re making the most difficult decision in their life and maybe want to have a chance to have a child and be alive to raise that child at a later date. if the mother passes there’s a chance that baby could go into an orphanage, if it even survives, and be ignored by a society that doesn’t give a **** about orphans.
I support abortion access in cases where the life of the mother is threatened. What percentage of cases is that btw? I found some data: The non-profit Guttmacher Institute says three-quarters of women having abortions say they can't afford a child, and an equal number say having a baby would interfere with work, school and the ability to care for others, including existing children. A study published in Guttmacher's International Family Planning Perspectives in 1998 said risk to a woman's health was the main reason for 2.8% of U.S. abortions in 1987-88. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/10/19/abortion-mother-life-walsh/1644839/
Thank you for clarifying. I’m speaking to a much broader notion beyond what you were commenting on. The sense and framing that “Democrats” are monsters that enjoy killing babies is dangerous dehumanizing rhetoric.
